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I personally hate gimmicks and all tricks that use gimmicks or some form of device that does all the work for you, i want to get everyone elses views on gimicks. I personally have never used a gimmick, maybe the odd duplicate card but nothing like the biting a coin in half or the deck with a hole all the way through or that raven thingy these are items you use to impress someone, no skill, no practice nothing just a trick. For example Blaine and the new guy dynamo, Blaine, used some good old fasion card techniques but he edited a lot and i mean A LOT of his work to make the tricks look better for the viewers at home and to make himself look better than he is. Now what is the point in doing that, it really annoys me to see him do this. And the new guy dynamo loves his gimmicks and by repeating what david Blaine does in the united states in the streets of england isn't anything new or impressive its just the story behind his magic (nothing more) that has put him on telly. Magic is amazing when you can do it anywhere with anything or someone elses deck of cards, that is good magic not here i have a deck of cards in my pocket watch this coin wrapped in flash paper burn its way to your card. Gimmicks really do not impress me personally and quite franky (edited out) !!! please share you views.

...thought transmitter...fantastic

...the working performers sensor envelope - genius...

...for the main, they leave me cold to a certain degree, but they have their place...

you say potato, i say potato...that doesn't work written down does it?

..i say spud more often than not anyways...

Whether gimmicks are used or not is down to the individual performer. As far as the spectators are concerned they neither know nor care if such trickery is used. If it works, don't knock it and please don't knock other performers too much but do be prepared to have your views challenged by those who have used gimmicks successfully and professionally for more years than they care to remember. Proof of the pudding and all that.

I use a combinination of gimmicks and well practised skill for my performances. Try doing PK effects without a gimmick.

Gimmicks are great used in moderation, but there is no substitute for real skill and handeling of the tools of the trade, be it cards or coins. If you only ever use gimmicks, what do you do when a friend gives you a pack of cards and say's show me a trick?

But as Mandrake said, it is down to the performer and what effects fit into their performance.

Personaly I am always tooled up with a raven, shell coins, cards, M5, PK Ring, Pen, etc when I go out.

So in summery I am all for gimmicks! in moderation.

I completley understand that some people use gimmicks very successfully im not challenging that they dont work, im saying that magic is an art that should be practiced, for example how can you say that you are a card manipulation expert if you use a svengali deck, it does the tricks for you, little skill is required. All the magicians that have put hours and hours and hours into practicing one paticular move in an attempt to amaze onlookers have my complete and upmost respect, i personally see it as a way of cheating, a kind of laziness, if you do magic dont just go and buy a trick in a shop and do it anyone can do that!

I agree with Mandrake.

Personally, I always use a stripper deck even when I'm not doing anything stripper-specific. It just extends the range of what's possible if I do want to use it.

Tell you what though, I'd like to see someone reproduce what a D'Lite can do without a gimmick!

if you use a svengali deck, it does the tricks for you, little skill is required.

Far from it I'm afraid - the real secret of Magic is the presentation and whether you spend hours learning knuckle busting sleights or use a gaffed deck is neither here nor there. The effect is the thing, not the way of doing it and if you use gimmicks and gaffs to ease the process then you can spend more time on the presentation.

The only people who are impressed by advanced sleights and so on are fellow magicians but they're not the ones who are important (sorry!) it's the audience, the spectators, the people who (hopefully) pay to see what we do. I'll grant you that being able to pick up a borrowed deck and do miracles is a wonderful talent and should be encouraged for all those who want to do that. However, as per the current NatWest adverts, there is another way - and it's quite possibly easier!

Actually we've had this discussion several times before (most recently on the topic of card flourishes) and the usual route takes us to an inevitable 'if it works for you then do it' type of understanding. Have fun !

I agree with much ofwhat has been said in responses from various people and no doubt there will be more posts that chellange your views.

I would suggest that you watch Andy Nyman's prsentation of the Svengali deck which will blow your theory to bits.

I don't object to gimmicks, although I try not to use them myself. What I find boring is that many magicians 'over' use them and do the same old routines as each others.

Part of the question is 'how do you define a gimmick'? Using a dupplicate card is a gimmick as I define it.

One further point is that I find magic with JUST cards to be rather dull and as you move away into some real magical routines such as 'Ninja Rings, Chop cup, egg / change bag to name but three, they all require a gimmick of sorts but are regarded as classics of magic - and this sin;t without reason!

Just to clarify, the gimmick never does ALL of the work for you. Even if it makes the EFFECT self-working - you still have to present it well.

I don't use a Svengali deck anymore, for reasons much like you mentioned. However - my reasons have nothing to do with the skill involved. The most important of which, is the skill to make it seem like you're NOT using a gimmick. The people who use a svengali deck have probably put equal or more effort into practicing their routine as a person who practices a difficult sleight.

Go check out Bill Malone's "On the Loose" volume 1 - watch his 3 card monte routine. Afterwards, come back and let me know if he was just being lazy.

It is not laziness to use gimmicks - it's naivete to completely dismiss their usefulness and power.

What is your opinion of gimmicks mixed in with sleight of hand? For instance - two of my well-received effects use gimmick cards and sleight of hand. At the finish of both, with a little bit of dusting - I can end completely clean and all gimmicks are 100% examinable. Just wondering if you don't like gimmicks at all - or just gimmicks that require no sleight of hand abilities.

Ooo I almost forgot to say!

Pop along to the introductions forum and introduce yourself to the group of nutters that frequent this place: (myself included)

Actually, I meant to make the point that Demitri has made about the skill of the presentation.

Your example of the bite out coin is a case of a bad gimmick in my opinion. I think gimmicks are fine when they are well used, but a bite out coin is obviously gimmicked, and draws suspicion upon itself by being too "impossible"

Subtly used gimmicks can make effects possible that otherwise wouldn't be, or make other effects more visual - without exposing the actual gimmick to suspicion. A good/well used gimmick is when the magic happens in a way that draws attention onto other props. ie. the magic appears to happen with another prop that is real. An example of this could be some of the various gimmicked coins across, or coins through table, where it appears that the magic is happening with the other coins.

Generally I prefer to be able to do things without gimmicks, but they do have their place, and they do require skill to use. At the very least you usually need to be able to swap them in/out for real/borrowed items at some stage in the effect.

Disagree again.

The bite out coin is a good gimmick that is very frequently mis-used and nearly alway misused by beginners who tend to buy this as one of their first tricks (because Blane did it).

Everyone knows that you can't bite a coin in half but with the right presentation, the magician causes people to question thier sense of normality by making the spec believe that YOU DID bite the coin in half. What leaves them puzzled is just how you did something that they know everyone else cannot do, particularly when you hand the restored coin out for inspection! This is what magic is about.

When Blane presented this, millions of people across the world were talking about this proving that it's not the gimmick, it's the presentation.

Fair enough. I just prefer the concept of gimmicks that aren't so directly related to the effect.

I don't own a biteout coin (although I have some stuff that could be used for the same effect), and I personally don't like the effect or the concept/thinking behind it. As you said, Blaine did get some mileage out of it, but since the effect is so short and definite, it surely offers little scope to be tailored to individual style (well mine anyway )

Ok,

I full heartedly agree with the point that presentation is what an amazing magic trick is made from, However firstly without the practice of the "knuckle busting sleights" it doesn't matter how good the presentation is you would not be able to perform the trick. Secondly Derren Brown (an amazing entertainer) said something along the lines of to make a truly amazing effect you must reduce suspision (if not then he should have) and by using a borrowed deck and not a gimmick noone can contest that anything was "set up". And i believe that the best effects i have ever performed were from a borrowed deck, Just imagine giving somebody a deck of cards that are yours, selecting any one of them and watching it dissapear or watching it be set on fire then reappear in the magicians pocket an effect like that is uncontested by any gimmick, and with magic becomming more and more popular people are starting to hear about some of these gimmicks and some own them themselves.

Please don't take offence by anything i may be saying, im not implying that magicians that use gimmicks are lazy, i meerly just stating my view or opinions on the subject. And im personally not a great writer so in cases you may see me contradict myself however if that is the case i normally think that both parts of the contradiction are to be considered, as many magicians do.

thanks for your replys by the way !!!!