talkmagic.co.uk

Ever since I joined these boards I've been trying to work Craig Browning out. It's a tricky job given that we've never met and that his pronouncements can sometimes appear contradictory. However I have learnt a lot, esp. about a possible target audience.

Craig has said (and I paraphrase) that only the very best magicians can earn decent money presenting themselves as conjurors or as mentalists in a "magic" setting and that we shouldn't be misled by a few stars on TV who have made it, as the reality for the mass of magicians is very different. However a far higher proportion of mentalists can make it by catering to the shut-eye market.

Craig has offered a number of ways to approach this and I greatly look forward to his forthcoming book.

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Given that I am right-handed but have to write with my left hand following an accident, I can safely say that sleight of hand will never be for me. When I do card tricks, they rely on mental rather than physical tricks for their effect. Twins, from "13" is a favourite.

However I have noticed that a really good mental effect with no cards is so much more impressive, esp. the further one goes from magic. Thanks to the super sharpie and Kioku I've been able to develop my CR skills to the point where I feel quite confident. I can't give a "You know what it's like to stand on the edge of the cave of darkness" type reading because it doesn't suit me - I tend to go for a straight but understated style.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I have set myself up as a mail order astrologer/clairvoyant which should give me plenty of practice. I can't do it face to face yet because of my job, but the reality is that the post office will probably close within a couple of years so I'll have time to explore that then.

The adverts will go out in about 2 weeks, offering astrology readings, dream interpretation, clairvoyancy etc. It will give me something to do during the quiet times at work and might earn a little cash.

The next step would be palm readings etc if I can find a decent venue.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank Craig for helping me settle on a "persona" and for his very valuable reading lists. Richard Webster's work is just fantastic.

Any advice, here or by PM, very gratefully received.

and I'm going to become a mime

btw have you studied on any of the things mentioned above or are you just going to give out intepretations that pop out of nowwhere at that moment?

I have books I can refer to and a computer program that can produce astro charts and planetary positions and all that stuff.

ian69 wrote:I have books I can refer to and a computer program that can produce astro charts and planetary positions and all that stuff.

Firstly Ian... thanks for your kind words. Secondly, if you do not already have it get a copy of MAIL ORDER MENTALISM by Richard Webster so you know what to do and how to make it profitable. Third, FIND OUT THE LAWS IN YOUR REGION THAT GOVERN THIS KIND OF THING!... that last one is very important so as to not get into legal hassles with mail fraud and other such odds & ends.

Now, if I read your post correctly, you have some physical limitations; something I can relate to given the fact that I spend most of time time in a wheelchair these days (Wayne Dobson is accusing me of stealing his idea). But, I'm also reading into what you've shared, some very dangerous philosophy -- the classic syndrome of trying to run before you can walk.

The PC Astrology program thing don't get it now days unless you have a very high end softward package (normal retail is between $1,200.00 and as much as $8,000.00 for such set ups). We live in a time where you can download basic forecast software for free e.g. if you want to make a penny on things, you must give much more!

Secondly, it would seem you have NO experience doing face to face Readings e.g. you are going to fall flat on you ars trying to use the psycho-mumbo-jumbo found in all the magic books and Forer type formuli. Contrary to what Ray Hayman and many others have expressed, YOU CANNOT B.S. THE PUBLIC WITH THIS STUFF! They will know when you are full of it and when you are not. Too, the skeptic's philosophy that believers or patrons of Readers are ignorant and unread is the very thing that brings them down and prevents the majority of them from ever being able to learn how to be an effective and "legit" Reader in the real world.

I'll tell you the same thing I tell all of my students that want to learn how to be a solid Reader; find a system or two that appeals to you and that's easy for you to understand and LEARN IT for real. Work with it doing free Readings for others over a year's time and then you can slowly weave it into a business practice in that you will have earned a minor reputation as well as increased understanding and savvy around it.

We are not talking about learning a "Magic Trick" here and even if you wanted to look at it in that light, we are talking about an "illusion" that requires years to develope and can't all be learned by reading books, watching dvds and listening to theory... YOU MUST DO IT!

Take the money you'd set aside for the ad and invest into some good Richard Webster books like the one mentioned above, Forecasting the Future with Numerology, Psychometry A-Z, etc. LEARN YOUR CRAFT!

If you feel like you need to do something more commercial for yourself then start promoting home psychic parties. These will give you cash, help you learn your skills, and help build on your local reputation.

Don't think I'm picking on you Ian... I can be a gruff old dog at times, but my reasons are always sound if you stop and mull them over a bit; I want those influenced by my thoughts to be better and more knowledgible than I am before they come near my present age.

Hi Craig,

Yes, I do have Mail Order Mentalism - in fact that was a large part in persuading me to have a crack at it myself. My feeling is that the written word will give me more time to think about what I'm saying than a face to face session. And being realistic, it is something I could do during the slack periods at work. I'd love to try more face to face stuff as you suggest but with 2 jobs and a toddler it's entirely impractical at the moment, so the written form is the only way to get some work as a reader at the moment.

Regarding running before I can walk - that may indeed be the case. However it is one of the only options at the moment so it's one I will have to try.

Re legal issues - the astrology seems fine. Offering any kind of clairvoyancy (i.e. answering specific questions) seems a bit dodgy but it has the advantage of dealing with the future.

Re PC Astrology - yes, you're right. One of my friends has a cheap program of this sort on his PC. My hope is that PC's aren't that widespread among the target audience and those that have them can often not use them very well. We shall have to see, but I accept that many will have access to programs/websites that do a similar job. My aim is to provide a nice product in a binder that they can keep and show to others.

Re experience - I have little, but certainly not none. I am also learning fast. I should be getting a tarot reading this w/e (so I can see how she does it) and did a nice CR today (the lady said "Oh, I'm a nice person really aren't I?" after the profile. If I were still living in London I'd do things differently - maybe having a palmistry stall somewhere etc, but I live in a small village where I can't really do this stuff, as I am the local subpostmaster. As I say, my options are limited and in other circumstances I might do things differently.

I certainly take into account what you say about BSing people.

You also say that the only way to learn is by doing it. I intend to do it, make mistakes, learn and adapt. But contrary to many others who just read about it, I will be trying to do it for real. If I fall flat on my face, it will still have been an adventure

BTW I have the other Webster books, but not the Cold Reading series he did. I'm trying to take your advice and learn systems, at least a little. Home psychic parties aren't an option at the moment - my wife suffers from depression and would probably kill me. Best avoided for now.

I do appreciate your time and advice. Please don't think I'm blithely ignoring it, I'm not. I'm just trying to make the best of the little time and few opportunities I can see at the moment. And it's time for me to DO rather than wonder about what it would have been like if I'd had the guts ... . I'm sure you can understand that.

Cheers,

Ian

Get your wife out of her depression... MAKE HER A PART OF THE ACT!

If doing this stuff is important to you, fun and potentially profitable, make it a FAMILY business and help her and in the future, your children, get excited about it and have fun with it.

I have dealt with chronic depression for most of my adult life and the best thing for it is getting out of my self and reaching out to help others through my talents and the simple act of "being there". I know many in our field that do Readings just for that reason, so it's something you may want to encourage your wife to do so she can feel a bit more special to you (at least as important as your magic is... believe me, that's an issue in most relationships in which a magic buff is involved).

Do everything you can to get actual hands-on experience vs. the mail order, even if it's doing Readings over the phone.

Catch my PM to you as well.

man dont i feel dumb. should have known that. sorry.


well good luck, craig is a cool guy and knows a lot.

I say old chap. We are talking about the British postal system here. It is well known that the postal systems in North America are somewhat decrepit.

Not the British system. We have the best postal system in the world. That is a prime example of how we won the Empire after all. I am not quite sure why we lost it of course. I expect it is something to do with the fact that we own Australia and wish we didn't.

As for psychic readings I have done thousands and thousands of them. Really. And I started with mail order readings for the same reason Ian wishes to. I was scared stiff of the punters and I thought that this way I wouldn't have to have contact with them.

However sooner or later you have to get practice doing it with live people. And I do agree with Reverend Craig Browning that you really need to get your feet wet doing it. This is no business for amateurs. And the only way you get professional at it is to get out there and do it.

Beware though. This is a very dangerous business and I don't think magicians who want to do it appreciate what an ethical tightrope you are walking.

If you do a card trick and screw it up the worst that can happen is that you look an idiot. Most magicians look like idiots anyway so this shouldn't be a new experience. However when you screw up a reading you can ruin someone's life.

Be careful.

I've worked on & off as an "intuitive" tarot card reader, both face-to-face and through the internet. The one piece of advice I would give is to actually learn how to do the skill you say you are using. Do not think you can BS people with cold reading tactics. Most people who will come to you will not be idiots, they will know at least a little about the subject matter themselves, and will probably have used other "psychics" before who will have had years of experience. Coming out with some mumbo-jumbo that you think sounds authentic will only result in you falling flat on your face.

Invest some time, read the books, and actually know the terminologies etc. inside out. It took me 6 months to learn the tarot to a degree where I felt happy doing it face-to-face and I crammed like mad - practised and read tarot books every waking moment.

It is worth it though. I now have a skill I can fall back on whenever needs must. So will you - but don't think it will be the easy option.

One other piece of advice I'd give (and I hope you don't mind me butting in like this!) regards advertising. I've advertised before in "Spirit & Destiny" style magazines, and it takes at least 3 consequetive months of advertising before you'll start to see a return. One advert does not a career make. You have to be prepared for the long haul.

If you want a "quick fix" and get some work coming your way, try eBay (really!). I've sold tarot readings on eBay for around £5 a time more often than I care to remember. Go on eBay and take a look for yourself. There are around 6 regulars who sell various styles of readings on eBay all the time. You'll have to place your ad in the "featured" area, and again be prepared to post up a couple of times before the orders come flooding in. But if your ad looks genuine and pushes all the right buttons, the work will arrive. And it's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying ad space in magazines.

There. That's all I'll say. I'll leave you in peace!

Beware though. This is a very dangerous business and I don't think magicians who want to do it appreciate what an ethical tightrope you are walking.

If you do a card trick and screw it up the worst that can happen is that you look an idiot. Most magicians look like idiots anyway so this shouldn't be a new experience. However when you screw up a reading you can ruin someone's life.

Thank you Rev. Lewis for those words of significant wisdom (seems conversing with that old reprobate Kross is mellowing you in your old age )

I fully understand the mentality of those that just take a deep breath and jump into untested waters, I've done it many times an have eaten far more fowl things (and that's not a mis-spelling... think about it) than I care to count. The thing is, I learned and I've grown through them. The biggest lesson being to stop taking that deep breath and proving to the world that I'm really a fool. (glutton for punishment & failure... et al).

Fortunately for me, I had a few old salts willing to reach out and help me recover from some of my head-strong fubars in life. I guess that's what the gods allow salty old dogs like Rev. Lewis and I to exist in the world of aspirent... it's part of our purgatarien destiny

That old rebrobate Ford Kross that you mention is a terribly wicked person of the first magnitude. He is a prime example of the way NOT to do a reading. Asking a million questions and fishing for information with all that cold reading stuff is NOT the way to do it. And I won't go into his unique way to remove curses from people which nearly landed him in the clink.

You need a system and I think Richard Websters books are the way to go. Craig himself has written material on the matter.

Naturally I think the greatest information of all is the Mark Lewis Psyhic Course which I will be happy to let members of this forum have at a cheaper rate than is generally available. Providing you all grovel in an appropriate manner of course. Details of my course can be found if you do a search of some kind. I don't understand all this computer technology so I will let you figure out how to do it.

After reading about it then come to me privately and I will see what I can do for you.

Not that I wish to indulge in blatant advertising of course.

> Paul

Thanks for the advice! I hadn't considered eBay but a quick look suggested it may well be worth a try. Re advertising, Richard Webster suggests the same - that things start after the third advert. I'll try to book 4 and see how it goes. I'm not going to do it just yet though, there's plenty of preparation I still need to do.

> Mark

Re the ethical side - I'll do my best but I know it's a minefield. And i agree it'd be grand to do it face to face but 2 jobs and a toddler don't make it easy, esp. when one of those is 6.5 days a week ...

> Craig

Thanks for the PM. I've replied in the requested fashion ...