Mark Wilson's Complete Course In Magic

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Postby Al Doty » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:42 am



I just spent the last twenty five minutes to compare MWCCIM with the Greatest Close-up Tricks and I found that since TGCUT came out first, all the effects in it were put in the complete course. I was at a used bookstore when I bought the close-up book for one dollar and a Doug Henning magic show program for two dollars. Just couldn't leave them there. So if you already have the complete course, you don't need to buy the GCUT, unless you are like me and can't pass up on a bargin.
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Postby Lenoir » Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:20 pm

Edited by Mods: Sorry, your photos show copyrighted material and we don't have a licence to reproduce it.

"I want to do magic...but I don't want to be referred to as a magician." - A layman chatting to me about magic.
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Postby TheJWalker » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:27 pm

I have to add my two cents here to say I am in absolute agreement with everyone here. My first copy of this book was so overused that the cover finally came off. I bought a new edition and low and behold it had MORE CONTENT!

Any version of this book is amazing, I would say it is definitely worth the investment if your version is missing the reputation makers section to buy a new copy.

A specific note I want to make on this book is that it includes an very good very simple sponge ball routine that works as an amazing springboard to design a personalized routine with sponge balls. This routine alone is worth the price of the book.

Also if you think you just want to do card magic or just want to do coin magic then buy this book first. It has excellent sections on each of these topics (cards more than coins) as well as all the other sections in case you want to broaden your horizons a bit. Whereas if you go with Card College or Modern Coin Magic (two more amazing books) that is all you will learn (admittedly in outstanding detail). You might find that you enjoy ropes and other props more than you thought you would.

BTW If you are truly interested in coins I recommend getting a good DVD. I couldn't make heads or tails of how to pull off allot of the more direct passes and palms until I was shown on DVD (your results may vary).

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Postby Adrian Morgan » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:34 pm

In an idle moment browsing this thread, I decided to have a look at the book on Amazon, not to buy (yet, anyway) but to see what I would learn there. After reading a little about Mark Wilson's Complete Course In Magic, I then followed a link to Mark Wilson's Cyclopedia of Magic, and there I had a look with the Search Inside feature.

And I was shocked to find that everything the latter book says about shuffling is complete and utter nonsense. It uses the phrase "table shuffle" to mean what everyone else calls the bog-standard riffle shuffle and implies that it is relatively difficult (it's what I use precisely because I've never got the hang of the overhand shuffle and prefer something easier). Meanwhile, it uses the phrase "riffle shuffle" specifically for a type of riffle shuffle done entirely in the hands, and states that it may be the most common type of shuffle (when really it is much more difficult and accordingly rare). The overhand shuffle isn't even mentioned.

Anyone who has used cards for playing games with, let alone for doing magic with, knows that all of the above is utterly contrary to fact. It's bizzare. Is there any explanation?

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Postby Lenoir » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:12 pm

Edited by Mods: Sorry, your photos show copyrighted material and we don't have a licence to reproduce it.


Sorry! "Didn't even cross my mind!"

"I want to do magic...but I don't want to be referred to as a magician." - A layman chatting to me about magic.
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Postby Miles More Magic » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:43 pm

Adrian Morgan wrote:And I was shocked to find that everything the latter book says about shuffling is complete and utter nonsense. It uses the phrase "table shuffle" to mean what everyone else calls the bog-standard riffle shuffle and implies that it is relatively difficult (it's what I use precisely because I've never got the hang of the overhand shuffle and prefer something easier). Meanwhile, it uses the phrase "riffle shuffle" specifically for a type of riffle shuffle done entirely in the hands, and states that it may be the most common type of shuffle (when really it is much more difficult and accordingly rare). The overhand shuffle isn't even mentioned.



In "Complete Course, pages 61-72 are about the overhand shuffle and controls using it.

On page 24, it states:
"The riffle shuffle is probably the most widely used method of shuffling cards; and for that reason alone, you should be familiar with it. It is not difficult, but it will require some practice to perform it smoothly."

With the table shuffle, he states it is similar, but more "proffesional" than the standard shuffle and is one of the best to use when seated at a table.

I'm not a cardie, but I always thought there was a riffle shuffle, as described, then a table riffle shuffle.

as far as I could see, he wasn't saying one was harder than the other, just that one was more suited to a table, while the other is used when standing.

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Postby Adrian Morgan » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:07 pm

Just to clarify:

Darrel wrote:On page 24, it states:
"The riffle shuffle is probably the most widely used method of shuffling cards;

More common than the overhand? Yeah, right.

I'm not a cardie, but I always thought there was a riffle shuffle, as described, then a table riffle shuffle.

Nah, there's a riffle shuffle, and then a riffle shuffle without a table. The one with the table is what most people mean when they say "riffle shuffle". Most shuffling is done while playing card games (not while doing magic), and most card games are played while seated at a table, so it figures. The only reason to do a riffle shuffle without a table is either because the circumstances demand it or you want to show off. Anyway, the standard riffle shuffle is the one with the table.

I'm absolutely boggled that any published work would claim otherwise.

Because this is a little off-topic for the book review thread, I will not add extra posts on the subject of shuffling. Instead, I will edit this post to append a response to anything that is subsequently said on the subject. Watch this space.

Part-Timer wrote:I'm not a cardie, but I always thought that the table shuffle was the one where you run your thumbs up the 'innermost' corners of the two packets of cards, causing them to interweave. You then push the packets together.

That is definitely what most people call a riffle shuffle.

A riffle shuffle (with or without a table), is where you put pressure in the middle of the backs of the two packets, springing them downwards, so the whole of the innermost short ends interleave. The packets are then pushed together, although they are already largely there.

I suppose that would also be a kind of riffle shuffle, but a different one. However I am unfamiliar with it.

Cardza wrote:I've always referred to the end-end as the riffle shuffle (which is the one most laypeople seem to know and do, alongside the overhand shuffle) and the corner-corner as the dovetail shuffle. The riffle shuffle done in the hands as an in the hands riffle shuffle.

I have recently read Marvin Kaye, who says "there are two shuffles used commonly in America, dovetail and overhand". My thought response was, "Why don't you call it a riffle shuffle like everyone else?". One answer could be that a riffle shuffle is any shuffle that involves the same basic principle of making the cards interleave, so it's just a matter of being more precise, i.e. dovetail is to riffle as apple is to fruit. I am honestly astounded by the claim that end-to-end riffle shuffling is even remotely as widely known/used among laypeople as corner-to-corner riffle shuffling (let alone more so) and I do not believe it for a second.

Last edited by Adrian Morgan on Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Part-Timer » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:27 pm

Adrian Morgan wrote:Just to clarify:

Darrel wrote:On page 24, it states:
"The riffle shuffle is probably the most widely used method of shuffling cards;

More common than the overhand? Yeah, right.


Certainly with most people who only play cards a bit, the overhand is much more common. Maybe he means among magicians and/or those who play cards a lot? I don't think he says that, though!

Nah, there's a riffle shuffle, and then a riffle shuffle without a table.


And a table shuffle too!

I'm not a cardie, but I always thought that the table shuffle was the one where you run your thumbs up the 'innermost' corners of the two packets of cards, causing them to interweave. You then push the packets together.

A riffle shuffle (with or without a table), is where you put pressure in the middle of the backs of the two packets, springing them downwards, so the whole of the innermost short ends interleave. The packets are then pushed together, although they are already largely there.

What I don't know is whether it's a riffle shuffle and an 'in-hands' riffle shuffle, or a tabled riffle shuffle and a riffle shuffle! My inclination is that Adrian's right. However, it doesn't strike me as a huge issue either way.

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Postby Renato » Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:34 pm

There is a difference, and it's one which in my experience is generally accepted amongst card players as well.

I've always referred to the end-end as the riffle shuffle (which is the one most laypeople seem to know and do, alongside the overhand shuffle) and the corner-corner as the dovetail shuffle. The riffle shuffle done in the hands as an in the hands riffle shuffle.

It's a distinction important for various bits of sneakiness, for example the Zarrow Shuffle requires a dovetail.

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Postby Miles More Magic » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:20 am

Adrian Morgan wrote:
Darrel wrote:On page 24, it states:
"The riffle shuffle is probably the most widely used method of shuffling cards;

More common than the overhand? Yeah, right.



In RRTCM, it says about the riffle shuffle:
" This is the shuffle ordinarily used by card players, but in spite of its almost universal use, it is rarely done neatly..."

I presume that in this case, as with MWCCIM, they are both talking about REGULAR users of cards, rather than among people who pick up a pack to play cards every now and then.

By the way, I do agree that the overhand shuffle is the one I have seen people use most of the time.

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Postby mysterico » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:40 pm

I WANT THIS BOOK!!! Problem is though, I have to save up for 5 weeks to buy it :( Btw, what is RRTCM? Oh, and one more thing, Mark Wilson didn't mean it was the MOST used shuffle, just one of them 8)

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Postby Replicant » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:57 pm

RRTCM = Royal Road to Card Magic.

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Postby Al Doty » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:02 am

One thing not covered in this thread is making a magic table from the illustration and directions given for a folding table with a triangle top and shelf. I built one and found that their drawing was in-acurate. The placement of the hinges is wrong. There just isn't enough room to put the type of hinge they show in the drawing. I had to use whats called T hinges to finish the table. I guess they thought that no-one would actually build one.
Cheers
Al

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Postby EckoZero » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:38 pm

I got my copy of MWCCIM from Seige ages ago and belive me, I've never had to wipe dust off it.

Whatever sort of magic you do or want to do... it's in here.

There's enough material in here to make a full routine for cards, for coins, rope magic, sponge magic, stage magic...

Everyone should own a copy of this book :D

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Postby Razzo » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:52 pm

Mark Wilson's is a brilliant book. I reccomend it all the time.

Raz

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