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Hi

I recently purchased the Bobo Modern Coin Magic book, and I am trying to teach myself the various coin concealments from chapter 1.

I am having problems with the "Classic Palm" in that to grip the coin my thumb keeps moving to the inner hand (over the coin) making it look really obvious. I have looked at photographic examples on http://www.coinvanish.com/ and see that the thumb should be held away from the hand.

I appreciate that I am only just statrting - and perhaps I should spend a little more time pratising - but I had this idea that maybe my hands just aren't the right shape to do this palm. Maybe I should be double jointed in some way?

I guess I am just looking for reassurance that it can be learnt - and will get easier with pratice.

Just reading through this book, and the Royal road to card magic has made me even more impressed with professional magicians. You guys make it all look so easy - I'll even go as far to say that you make it look like magic.

If your thumb is coming into your hand you are probably holding the coin too near to your fingers. Try moving it in the direction of you wrist slightly.
It is also possible that you are trying to grip it too tightly, the coin should stay in your palm wth hardly any pressure at all with practice. Try keeping your hand palm up while you practice gripping the coin with your thumb out and then once you have got the hang of it turn your hand over and try to find out exactly how much pressure you need to hold the coin securely.

When you have mastered it you should be able to use your hand almost completely naturally, you will be able to pick objects up with that hand and even snap your fingers, which as all laypeople know is impossible with a coin palmed. I have found that in discussion with non-magicians that without fail every one of them that knew about the classic palm also knew that it 'always' makes the magician look like he has a crippled hand, which is a very useful misconception for us because if your hand doesn't look like that then even if they think you might have palmed the coin they will convince themselves that you haven't!
Nick

that you do, is rest the tip of the thumb, loosley against the tip of a finger.
Rather like the " stealth move" used in t.t. work.
to get the hand into relax mode whilst clasic palming, palm a coin, then pick up a pint glass.
observe how the hand shapes around the glass in a natuarl, relaxed state.
also, remember that often, magicians hold something, like a wand, or a pen, in the same hand as the object palmed.
this, the visible object, disguising the invisible.
So important in cups and balls.
Dale

just curious but what kind of coin are you using? a £2 coin is about the perfect size but can be kinda heavy for a beginner.... try using an old penny(pre decimal) or a mexican centavo (comes with most scotch and soda sets) these seem to fit nicely into the palm

Bananafish

It would seem that you're experiencing the same frustration we all do... things which look easy are actually quite deceptively difficult. The Coinpurse does a good explanation, and you should not think that you need weird hands to do this sleight! Your hands are just skin, bone and muscle, and like any part of your body they can be 'trained'.

OK, here's some pointers:

What type of coins are you using?
Try getting some proper palming coins (Harry Anderson's coins on the eMagictricks.co.uk site?) They are thinner, and their edges are easier to clamp. Try not to practice with coins that are too small, or have thick, unmilled edges.

The grip
The biggest difficulty at first is trying to find the 'sweet spot'. Everyone has a different place where palming is easiest, although it IS handy to be able to have a range of positions for times when it is necessary to palm more than one coin.
Try spreading your hand flat. Then, keeping your fingers straight, bring the tip of the pinky and thumb together.
If you raise your hand palm-up in this position, and present your upturned wrist to your face, you'll notice a V shape between the muscle of the base of the thumb and the pinky side of the palm.
Try holding a small stack (2 or 3) of coins there for a while. Don't worry about the position of your hand just yet, just get used to the feel of the coins there. You'll need to build up the muscles, so try doing a few hours each day just holding the coins there until you can do the same WITHOUT locking your fingers.

Looking natural
Become aware of how people hold their hands during day to day life, even your own. Keep a coin palmed with you whilst walking around, whilst sitting chatting, even whilst doing things involving your hand.
You'll find that people are not really interested in whether there is a coin there or not, and you should become aware of how your OWN hands look in a natural pose. Try relaxing your hand palm-down right now. You'll notice it naturally 'cups' the palm, and yet the mistake most beginners make is to over exaggerate what they believe is a natural pose to make the hand look natural.

Exercises
Like I mentioned before, you can exercise by trying to grip a few coins at a time, lessening the amount until you can VERY firmly grip just one. Also, like athletes, you need to keep your hands quite supple. My favourite way is to do 'rolls' and squeezes with a Squash ball. It keeps your fingers strong and helps co-ordination.
Another good excercise is simply practice over and keeping your fingers straight and just touch each finger tip to your TT, and cycle this move.
Your hand will tire after a while!

That's my own personal advice, if I'm teaching bad habits, someone please let me know and I'll edit the post, but IT WORKS FOR ME!

i have been using a£1 coin becasue i thought this would be better if a snmaller coin was used, however i have since been told this is not the case, what about a 50p slightly bigger and also lighter

I've just edited the post... sorry Midge...

Thanks for all the advice (I really love this forum).

I've been praticing with a 2p - although I have now switched to the Mexican coin that comes with the scotch and soda - as this is about the same size as the £2 coin, but not as heavy - so for my inexperienced hands a better coin to pratice with.

At the moment I only feel comfortable with the grip when the tip of the thumb and pinkie are in close proximity but I guess I will get better with pratice. And besides - as Seige mentioned - the natural position of the hand is to have the fingers cupped a little anyway.

I also found Dales advice on holding some object such as a pen could be useful when actually doing tricks as a) it helps with the grip and b) it offers a certain amount of misdirection. In saying this though I think I should pratice with an (apparently) empty hand first.

I shall pratice at work (at least until people start asking why I keep dropping pennies everywhere!).

So I'll be doing Seige's exercises - but I also quite like Dale's exercise with the pint glass. I just have to convince my girlfriend that we need to go to the pub so that I can pratice my magic.

Thanks again for all the advice and encouragement.

yes the advuce was very good, i have just managed pick up a drink with a palmed coin in my hand and it is getting to feel quite natural

Something I have learnt over the last day or so while I have been walking around with a 2p in classic palm is that if I do drop it, it is because of the grip on the little finger side.

I have tried to stop this by tightening the grip on my little finger side, however the coin just falls out.

So I have now learnt what to do to stop this from happening, is when I feel it slipping from my little finger side I increase the pressure on my thumb side and this stops the coin from slipping. Hope this is of use to any one else just starting out on the long road to mastering coin sleights

With the hand in a relaxed state, if the coin does fall out, it should automaticaly drop into finger palm position.

this post has prompted me to take a look and see if there is a simple way to determine where the sweet spot is.i noticed that mine isnt where i thought it was. This may be the reason the coin drops out.
mine is slightly further down the hand, towards the centre of the wrist.( difficult to describe in words, pointing and saying " there" is much better)
the books seem to standardise the position ,naturaly, but because many peoples spot isnt in the same place, many will be put off doing coin palming.
D

Dale

You're right... as I mentioned above, everyone's sweet spot is in a different place. It is quite easy to keep even large coins palmed with the hand totally relaxed, due the the natural 'cupping' I mentioned.

I think that there are a few things that contribute to slipping coins, and possibly the worst is sweaty palms! If I get very nervous or sit around waiting to perform, I tend to get quite sweaty palms, and it's an absolute nightmare! Ground chalk helps, or just simply drying the hands. Don't use Talc, though, it seems to have a weird slippery lubricating effect!

Another problem arises from people trying to grip too hard. Once you've trained your hands, the grip is quite relaxed and natural, and the only times the 'dimple' is visible on my little finger is when palming 2 or 3 large coins, which requires a bit more control.

I think it's all to do with the suppleness of the hand and the firmness of the muscles... too often you can sniff out a magician who's palming a coin by the odd mishaping of the hand, but a seasoned coin manipulator would hold coins with very little effort at all.

It's like a lot of magic, you need to adapt your own technique. The books and videos can help, but at the end of the day, we're all built differently.

I believe that anyone who can touch their pinky tip and thumb together can palm a coin.

And Dale's sweet spot is about right, I imagine, because that's where mine is... nearer the wrist. A common mistake is to palm the coin in the flesh below the knuckle joints of the palm.

With practice, it is possible to drop a stack of coins one at a time from classic palm to fingertip rest, and this can form the basis of many tricks.

Don't be put off if you can't do it at first. It is definately something that needs practice, depending on what state your hands are already in.