talkmagic.co.uk

Sorry to burst bubbles - but I don't really think Copperfield HAS any competition.

It's a lovely theory - and one that would make a great story - but I think you're delving perhaps a little too deeply?

I think it's Fox who broadcast the Secrets Revealed thingies, and they're in the entertainments business - and so are magicians.

It would not surprise me if the whole thing was actually endorsed by the IBM!!! It was a very popular show (and still is), which is why they made it. I don't think there's any conspiracy theory at all.

Magicians the world over are still making tons of money doing the Zig-Zag, Sawing a Lady in Half, Cig thru Quarter... it's not harmed anything at all - least of all Copperfield's 'competition'.

In fact, as I mentioned earlier in this thread - these programmes have helped magicians in a huge way!

the MM does expose at least one of Copperfields tricks, the statue of liberty, albeit in the guise of a dissapearing tank, but the theory is the same, and that was one copperfields most amazing illusions.

I'm with seige on this one, the MM has done nothing but help the magic community. Just wish ITV2 would stop repeating them and show some old copperfield specials or something like that, or maybe the Xmas '76 special with Ricky Jay

Bug

Or even commission some new proper Magic shows? No, that would be asking far too much!

Ah, well, we can dream... however...

They could come to some compromises and kill several birds with one stone:

1: Make Big Brother disappear
2: Saw Judy Finnegan in half - there's enough to make two new ones
3: Perform the 'Cut and Restored' celluloid trick on the news, leaving only the happy stuff
4: A live outside broadcast of the 'Cigarette Through Eye' trick with Tony Blair
5: The Torn and Not Restored Driving License for Micheal Schumaker
6: The Magic Rice Bowls - for the striving third world
7: That trick where you turn four Jokers into a boy band (again)... NFW???
8: The Impossible Penetration - Gareth Gates & Jordan???
9: Stop the Back-palm from the Football games coverage and spend the money on something better
10: Ban the Second Deal - we've all had enough of those dreary repeats of stuff that was good the first time round: Spend the money on new and more exciting proggies instead?

Some almost sensible suggestions, magically.

and on that theme...

11. Coronation Street Magician
12. The FA Cups and Balls
13. Match (Tricks) of the Day

or how about

Blue Peter Nardi

(I hasten to add this would be a show on making magic tricks - and not anything to do with erotic magic)

i'd even settle for repeats of the Paul Daniels Magic Show, i really like that.
There must be hundreds of them in the archives that never see the light of day, and everyone in magic from Meir Yadid to Juan Whats-his-face has been on as a guest.

That would do very nicely!

Although folks are quite happy to knock Paul Daniels, his programmes were of consistent good quality - varied content and always professional. Most of the 'well-known' magicians acknowledge Paul as inspiration and, as in the case of the Lance Burton programme last weekend, credit Paul as one of many advisors. His lecture tours are usually a sell out and his recent personal appearance in Wales was so successful that the organisers had to change the venue twice until they got a place big enough to seat all the audience!

Compare with the rash of makeover/reality and other programmes featuring rank amateurs and 'the public at large'. Not much of a comparison, are they?

(Mandrake raises the protest banner ready to march on Broadcasting House but, as it's a long way from Birmingham, decides to do it some other time and settles down for yet another kip.)

IMO, the masked magician is just some tin pot cruise magician who hasnt got the personality or the initiative to make it big...so what better way of getting famous than giving tricks away? And anyways Ive been doing magic for nearly17 years and I havent seen most of the "illusions" he performs....

I'm with the copperfield theory

It seems rather strange that, having done the first 4 Reveals and then revealed the MM to be Valetino, Fox produced Revealed 5 with another geezer in similar garb. I guess they make more money from that style of programme than doing proper magic shows.

Of course they do! A lot of people don't like to be fooled and always want to "beat the magician". I know a lot of people who recored these shows so if a magician ever does a trick for them, they can be the smartypants(unsure if I was allowed to use another word there). TV companies now know they can make money from it and will probably continue to make these programmes as long as peole watch them. (I admitt I watch them myself).

In which case perhaps we are at fault with our presentation in the first place? If we performed real magic would people feel that they had been fooled or would they appreciate the 'magic'? Then, if we could present our magic in a way which suggested real magic rather than trickery people would not feel inferior to the magician, but priviledged to have been able to watch him perform. If the avoidance of feelings of mental inferiority are what encourages people to watch these programs then this change in our performance would render them useless as the real magic would be what was experienced by the audience and not what they saw us do.

Sorry, but I just got "Absolute Magic" and I am finding myself thinking quite a lot about performance! When I finish reading it I will write a review.

I just love returning to topics yonks after they seem to have ended!

I always thought the Masked Magician thing was a fairly recent event but was totally wrong. We know that Reginald Scott published 'The Discoverie of Witchcraft' in 1582 but that wasn't so much a secrets revealed but more to try and show that burning folks as witches etc wasn't really nice as there's usually a better explanation than witchcraft - in this case sheer skill.

Another book called Modern Magic was written by an Oxford educated London barrister called Angelo Lewis, but who used the pen name of Professor Hoffman, because (get this!) he was 'disturbed at the snail-like progress of his beloved magic, as well as a certain sameness in the performances he witnessed'. He decided to stir things up a bit by exposing the secrets in the expectation that the professionals would then have to work a bit harder and develop new stuff. This was in the early 1900's and it sounds very familiar, doesn't it!

Incidentally, the nett result of the Prof's revelations was a kick up the rear for the professionals but also a boom in interest in magic from amateurs (!) and a brand new generation of lovers of magic. Most of The Prof's secrets are no longer used so his idea worked. If only Fox TV had the same good intentions!

(You can tell I've been reading my Christmas prezzie books, can't you?!)

maybey you have missed a subtle point about this show most of us know how the substitution trunk works but compare hansmereties version to the pendragons version and there miles apart .

the masked magician may make you aware how its done but he also allows you to apreciate the trick on performance merit as well.
i saw a magic programe a wile ago mainstream where they slowed down the camera on a bottom deal and you could still not see how it was done, the point is i apreciated the skill and poise involved and i wanted to learn it myself shame its not in royal road.

my shows have always been about the service i povide to that end i do the sliding die box that practacly the whole world knows how its done but as i perform it well it always goes down a storm, by nowing how a trick is done you learn to apreciate how its performed thats why i like to what the pendragons do the same very old well known tricks because they do them so well.