The Masked Magician

Chat about specific magicians and their shows, their careers and their place in the history of magic.

Moderators: nickj, Lady of Mystery, Mandrake, bananafish, support

World-Of-Magic, Suppliers of quality Magic Worldwide MagicWorld Magic Shop for Magic Tricks Visit Magicbox for all the latest and best effects! A web site set up to sell my book, THE STRIPPER DECK, and future magical/mentalism titles. Web Design for Magicians Best prices around!

Postby dat8962 » May 5th, '05, 18:37



I won't turn this into another David Blaine topic so please see many of the DB posts elsewhere and you'll see that DB doesn't have many, if any tricks of his own as he copies from others aswell.

Member of the Magic Circle & The 2009 British Isles Close-Up Magician of the Year
It's not really an optical illusion - it just looks like one!
User avatar
dat8962
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 9265
Joined: Jan 29th, '04, 19:19
Location: Leamington Spa (50:Semi-Pro)

Postby MagicBill » May 6th, '05, 14:07

I agree, although I haven't seen his 2 Card Monte before!

User avatar
MagicBill
Senior Member
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Apr 21st, '05, 13:57
Location: Glasgow (30:WP)

Postby Ninja » May 6th, '05, 16:19

MagicBill wrote:I agree, although I haven't seen his 2 Card Monte before!


It's alright.
Speaking of 2 card monte, I was trying to find a way to do it with a latteral palm, just for fun, and see how it works out. Just have to try it on someone now :P I'm really not a fan of tripple lifts either, I have to work on them more.

User avatar
Ninja
Full Member
 
Posts: 94
Joined: May 5th, '05, 16:47
Location: Jasper, Alberta

Postby MagicBill » May 6th, '05, 16:29

'Alright'?!!!!!!!!

I think it is pretty damn good! Think about it from the spectator's point of view - 2 cards change...in their hand.

I've found that it is one of the best tricks to enhance your misdirection skills.

Can't see the advantge of a lateral palm though. The way I do it (with DLs and a top change) means you can do it surrounded - ideal for table hopping etc.

User avatar
MagicBill
Senior Member
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Apr 21st, '05, 13:57
Location: Glasgow (30:WP)

Postby Ninja » May 6th, '05, 16:50

MagicBill wrote:'Alright'?!!!!!!!!

I think it is pretty damn good! Think about it from the spectator's point of view - 2 cards change...in their hand.

I've found that it is one of the best tricks to enhance your misdirection skills.

Can't see the advantge of a lateral palm though. The way I do it (with DLs and a top change) means you can do it surrounded - ideal for table hopping etc.


I did the 2 card monte on 2 girls I saw in a coffee shop yesterday, to all the people I've done it to, they more so seem not to understand the trick than anything else.

It is a good trick to enhance your misdirection skills. No doubt about that.

As for lateral palm in this trick, there really is no advantage here, just a different way of doing it. The way I see it, if you can do a trick more than one way, thats a good thing, even if another is easier, or better. But having the skills to do them in different ways is a good thing I think.

User avatar
Ninja
Full Member
 
Posts: 94
Joined: May 5th, '05, 16:47
Location: Jasper, Alberta

Postby MagicBill » May 6th, '05, 16:58

If they don't understand the trick then perhaps it is your presentation that is leading to the confusion? I perform this often and it always kills.

They concentrate so hard on following which card is the Queen of Hearts and which one is the Queen of Diamonds that when they turn over their hand and see two black aces it just blows them away!!!

Just be really clear on what you're doing. Say you will perform the switch and then teach them how its done. Obviously, you are just leading them up the garden path, which is why the climax is so surprising!

User avatar
MagicBill
Senior Member
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Apr 21st, '05, 13:57
Location: Glasgow (30:WP)

Postby Ninja » May 6th, '05, 17:04

MagicBill wrote:If they don't understand the trick then perhaps it is your presentation that is leading to the confusion? I perform this often and it always kills.


Maybe it's more disbelief than anything. I've had maybe a handfull of people go HOLY c*** (not the best) from the trick. Maybe the people I do it to just don't get it. I explain everything I do when doing the trick. I dunno, some people are just weird I guess.

User avatar
Ninja
Full Member
 
Posts: 94
Joined: May 5th, '05, 16:47
Location: Jasper, Alberta

Can't expose skill

Postby vladrac » May 9th, '05, 17:36

I always favour magic that takes real skill, if the MM wants to expose this magic with statements like "this would take years to learn" then I would not mind

but I doubt he would do that

vladrac
Junior Member
 
Posts: 20
Joined: May 9th, '05, 14:02

exposure

Postby fatman » Jun 8th, '05, 15:08

Reading many of the posts, both in this thread and others, the fear of exposing the secrets is evident. I would like to add a couple of pence worth to this argument.

Firstly: most people don't care! The world is not full of people desperate to know how the magician they saw last week made their card stick to the ceiling! Hopefully they enjoyed the show and will remember the magicians name if they want to book a function for their friends.

Secondly: Most people dont remember so well!. This was illustrated to me when I performed a "tossed out deck" routine using a Telemental deck at our club's mentalism night. This is a prop I had purchased at a lecture about 4 months before at the same club, but only one member actually knew how I had acheived the effect and yet about a dozen of them had been at the lecture. In fact one of the members said "oh yeah, I got one of them too". So if practicing magicians can't remember and adapt routines then I feel sure that lay people will struggle to apply their new found knowledge to any situation that doesn't EXACTLY match what they saw on the television (right up to the fact that I think you might need to wear a mask!)

This is just my thoughts and I stand to be shot down, but I think we should just carry on and entertain the people! Most of us can kick a ball but we still pay millions to watch David Beckham!

fatman
Junior Member
 
Posts: 21
Joined: May 20th, '05, 17:07
Location: Bath (40:AH/SH)

Postby milzy » Sep 29th, '05, 17:40

i still think that some day he will be killed

because he reveals some tricks that have been hidden to the public for centurys thats why i hate him

he brakes the most important rule of all:
never reveal your magical secrets

milzy
Junior Member
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Sep 29th, '05, 15:41
Location: ashford

Postby kems » Sep 29th, '05, 17:50

milzy wrote:i still think that some day he will be killed


:roll: you sure.... I think he has done magic some good... got me back into it! ok he did expose some real goodies but still most people wouldnt be bothered to watch it anyway!

User avatar
kems
Senior Member
 
Posts: 771
Joined: Mar 30th, '05, 14:15
Location: Essex, UK (32:AH)

Postby MagicIain » Sep 29th, '05, 22:25

milzy wrote:i still think that some day he will be killed


I can guarantee that one day, he will die.

Is that OK, my murderous little newbie chum?

User avatar
MagicIain
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 1438
Joined: Feb 11th, '04, 14:53
Location: Colchester, Essex (30:WP)

Postby milzy » Oct 3rd, '05, 08:36

its not like im going to kill him
im not a phyco
just think about it
he has been revealing secrets that have been worked on for hours and hours and hours for the best effect
then the masked magician comes along and destroys his work

soz if i have offended anybody but its just the way i feel

milzy
Junior Member
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Sep 29th, '05, 15:41
Location: ashford

Postby Craig Browning » Nov 7th, '05, 02:05

magicguy wrote:Well that was nice. Now I am going to have to put forth my theory about all of this "masked magician" (MM) hoo ha. 8)

I believe that back in the 80's when the MM first showed up giving away the thin model sawing illusion, it was David Copperfield who was behind it because being the great publicist that he was... following the lesson taught by Houdini himself -- to give away the competitions secrets and keep your own intact. :wink:

I am certain that none of David Copperfield's illusions were revealed in the 4-part "Magic's Biggest Secrets Revealed" series. I have seen them all, and I can testify that they aren't. However, the thin model sawing blew everyone away and the zig zag was very popular as well. Stage Illusionists everywhere took a blow from a guy who was in position to stomp his competition. Just like back in Houdini's day when other "Escape Artists Secrets" were exposed as a competitive blow. :shock:

I don't believe that Valentino is really the masked magician. He was not in the position to crush the competition. He was a small timer who would have given away his whole show and ended up shooting himself in the foot. I think he was a hired guy who could pull off the illusions in the specials and walked away a very rich man. (Copperfield's income is estimated at 33 millions dollars a year. I'm sure he could afford to pay Valentino enough to gladly walk away from stage magic with a soiled reputation)

After David Blaine cropped up as a big time competitor... boom he's exposed in "Secrets of Street Magician's Revealed" Anyone can see who this show was aimed at exposing. (Cigarette thru quarter was exposed which Copperfield performed in '86 -- that's all) At this point, I had it pretty much figured out, but then...

I think others were catching on to who would be motivated to expose these particular "competiors" and were beginning to sniff around for the truth and I believe that David Copperfield paid Valentino to take the fall to get them off his trail. The I.B.M. was making such a fuss about it that SOMEONE had to take the fall. (Copperfield is a member so he couldn't really stand up and say, "It was me" it would have hurt his reputation -- because they were already badmouthing the MM before they knew who was behind it all) :oops:

So I ask you all to think clearly... who else but David Copperfield had the means AND the motive to expose what has been exposed? :?:

Certainly you can all see how David Copperfield's career has not been tarnished by any of it and has surely been boosted by the tremendous stomp to HIS competition.
:!:
That's my theory. And I'm sticking to it.



I'm sorry, I had to bust up laughing at this post...

FACT #1 The original Masked Magician was a wannabe named Hal Marquate. He was busted because of an investigation between key players at the magic castle and a friendly telephone conversation that took placed between Peter Pit, Kirk Kirkham and myself in which prop rental list we had matched many of the illusions featured in the FOX video. Too, the Crystal Box and other items featured on that tape were at one point in time, mine and part of my personal inventory and we knew who owned them... who rented them to Hal.

So Copperfield had NOTHING to do with any of the Masked Magician programs.

The Thin Model Sawing featured in the Valentino shows (which Val did do all of... again, someone I know personally) I believe was leased from a well known illusionist. It is a "rare" Owen version of the illusion and not what I'd call "A-Typical", just what they were able to get their hands on for the shoot.

I don't believe that Valentino is really the masked magician. He was not in the position to crush the competition. He was a small timer who would have given away his whole show and ended up shooting himself in the foot.


At the time these shows were being shot Valentino was probably one of the busiest magic performers in the greater southern Nevada market. He was a midday headliner at the Sands I believe it was and did evening shows in Laughlin (roughly 90 minute drive south) at night. He wasn't hurting in the least for income either and his intent was very much of a sincere nature -- to encourage the magic industry to GROW UP!

Again, Copperfield had NOTHING to do with the project... he's far too busy for such childish games. Of course, Val has been doing quite well since the shows aired, still doing magic as The Masked Magician.

ONE IMPORTANT POINT that seems to always get ignored or overlooked when it comes to these shows and that is the FACT that most of what was tipped either has NEVER BEEN USED or dealt with very old, out of date methods no longer practical to employ.

User avatar
Craig Browning
Elite Member
 
Posts: 4426
Joined: Nov 5th, '05, 14:53
Location: Northampton, MA * USA

Postby TheMightyNubbin » Nov 7th, '05, 07:06

Craig Browning wrote:ONE IMPORTANT POINT that seems to always get ignored or overlooked when it comes to these shows and that is the FACT that most of what was tipped either has NEVER BEEN USED or dealt with very old, out of date methods no longer practical to employ.


Craig - I heard that whilst he exposed some old stuff he did tip stuff that professional magi's were using and that they had to change their shows as a result.

I also heard he had a $150K tax bill so he was financially motivated to do the shows. Plus to get revenge on Gary Ouellette who wouldn't put him on the 'Worlds Greatest Magicians' specials.

The other thing is he MUST of known that he'd get discovered - there's no way you could make a big show like that (rent the props as you say) and somebody not expose him.

TheMightyNubbin
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Aug 22nd, '05, 03:25

PreviousNext

Return to Magicians' Hall of Fame

Sorcery Shop - Home of the ITR Playing Cards for Magicians Aeternum Servare Secreta UK's Online Magic Tricks and Jokes Shop offers kids and beginner magic tricks and jokes. Dude That's Cool Magic Manufacturer of modern & unique magic apparatus! Best prices around!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests