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I don't care about all the reasons I think these shows harmed magic. It just reinforces its all tricks over and over again.

A minor Tax bill that wasn't the reason for the action but "revenge" may have come into play on some level. Val had been sold short by the "establishment" for years... if you get involved with this industry and more specifically, the "fraternities" herein, the politics can get very funny and cause some very unfair elements of advantage for the unworthy and disadvantage to those that actually have talent.

Any "Professional" worth his/her salt wasn't hurt by anything exposed in those shows... a lot of people trying to climb up into the pro ranks may have panicked a bit but that goes back to their inability to turn things around to their advantage. The Elephant Vanish from the show is based on the old Melbourne Christipher unit I used to own... it ticked me off that it was tipped but on the other hand, it is a method that's outrageously impractical on one level and on another level, now that it's "known" it can be used to actually fool folks.



Penn & Teller tip a lot of methods used by magicians in their shows. One night in particular they exposed the pass, some kind of break and a card force early in the show. During intermission (if I recall the story correctly) Jamie Swiss sent into the audience doing card tricks using ONLY those methods that were exposed and yet NOT A SINGLE PERSON CAUGHT ON TO THE FACT!

Many years ago the L.A. Times did an article on Johnson's Products exposing their Cigarette Thru Quarter gaff in a full color 4 x 6 photo... this was one of my primary routines. Rather than panic I got with a good friend and over a couple hour period, we created a routine that was clean and shut down the idea that I used anyting remotely close to the Johnson device. I proceeded to perform that routine as part of a Sunday Brunch at the Magic Castle using the newspaper article as my close-up pad and asking the audience how I could have possibly done all they'd just seen using something that obviously clunky...

Sorry guys, but only the wannabes fear exposure of this kind. If you honestly know your art and the craft you will have no problems side stepping this kind of thing.

Magician Dean Hankey (TheDean) was working his show at Lake Tahoe when the first show aired... the show that "tipped" the levitation ala forklift.

Dean knew ahead of time about the forklift explanation, had a lifesize flat foamcore picture of a forklift made up... with girl in air the curtain lifts so he can get the hoop... he sees the forklift, makes a face and pushes it over... the audience laughs and are still mesmerized in that they don't know how she stays up...

It's perspective gang!

$150,000 is a minor tax bill?

Craig, are you Bill Gates in disguise?

Sure people got round the issues, but Val did require several pro magi's to change their act to some degree, he did have an impact bottom line.

TheMightyNubbin wrote:$150,000 is a minor tax bill?

Craig, are you Bill Gates in disguise?

Sure people got round the issues, but Val did require several pro magi's to change their act to some degree, he did have an impact bottom line.

What I'm saying is that I do not believe the Tax bill was that large... far less as I understand it.

As far as guys changing their acts around... what can I say... I've yet to see a sub-trunk work the way it was tipped in the show and this is a "standard" to the industry... the Zig Zag has been exposed time and again (along with the Buzz Saw, Aga Levitation, Broom Suspension, Disembodied Princess, etc.) on carnival backlots as part of the Blow Off in major Side Shows and I still know of no one in magic that this has crippled... as I've said, if you KNOW your job exposure won't be that big of a deal and as Rick Maue pointed out long ago, there are ways of turning this issue to your advantage.

BTW... Banachek is still trying to find one of those nifty remote control devices for doing PK time... it drives him crazy that he's been doing it wrong for so long.

I hate it so much when loser magicians reveal other people's secrets.
I personally think a more important phrase is "a magician never reveals someone else's secrets".
It happened to me a couple times, but I guess your fair game if you use tricks that somebody else knows.

I hate it so much when loser magicians reveal other people's secrets.

Hey, let's try not to make it too personal. It's one thing to hate them doing it, but to call them a "loser magician" just because they did is (imo) a little immature of you. From what I have read he (they) are exceptional magicians.

A magician never reveals someone else's secrets

I agree that the magicians code should be a fundamental a part of doing magic

Well, thought I’d bring together some ideas and some of my own thoughts from this two-year old and many page discussion (boy was that a lot of reading!). So, here we go...

1) It is true that we shouldn’t reveal the secrets of magic. In doing so we are undermining the whole art and it’s pointless. There is no reason to do such a thing if you like magic.

2) However, it does happen. Think about how many magic shows revealing effects there must have been - I doubt they’ve broken in to treble figures. Compared to the thousands and thousands of effects out there, and the number of creative people coming up with new effects, a handful of ‘classics’ is not a major issue. There’s the evolutionary idea of ‘natural selection’ in which only those who can adapt to their environment survive. If you believe in evolution then it’s how we as humans came to exist today. Take this idea to magic - if you want to succeed you can’t keep performing magic that the audience knows how is done! If your magic is being revealed then find a new way of presenting it or find some new effects. Adapt your magic in accordance with general public’s understanding of magic.

3) As has been said many times before, if your effect has been revealed then find a new way of presenting it. Take the cigarette through coin for example. Try it with an object other than a cigarette, or with a different coin if possible. Because we as magicians are more involved in magic than our audiences we tend to get hung-up on these sorts of shows. The general public who see a show will have more pressing matters to deal with - work, family, etc. It’s only likely that they will recall the workings of an effect when you perform it as it was revealed. So if they see you pushing a cigarette through a pound coin and they saw someone on TV doing the exact same thing they’ll probably recall how it’s done. But, if you borrow a ten pence piece, switch it for the gimmicked ten pence you happen to have about you and push something entirely different like a ribbon or a pencil through it with a different presentation then they will probably be amazed.

4) I doubt these guys will ever reveal a lot of the ‘major’ stuff. Respect for the art would stop them and they know there would be huge uproar in the magic community. What’s more, these kinds of shows go for audience attention grabbing magic. They want to see the gadgets and the gizmos and are not going to be entertained by explanations of sleights etc. It’s visual magic a lot of the time.

5) In a slightly different take it’s true that card sleights etc. are revealed on the internet and in books in the shops it is much easier for someone sitting at home to be flicking through the channels and WATCH how tricks are done than to go and trawl through information on the internet or buy a book.

In summary, I do not advocate the revealing of magic secrets but it’s happened and it will probably continue to happen - we just have to keep an eye on what’s being revealed and alter our magic to be ‘one step ahead’ of our audiences.

I hate those magicians who are exposing the secrets of Magic tricks through TV shows. What are their pupose? To screw us? or Bust us for what we are doing? I remember when I'm still a lay, when someone is exposing the secrets of magic, I'm really happy on that day, because I love magic, I even buy some silly magic items on Jean Suzuki's shop... But now, I do not like public exposures of our tricks... Even if the masked magician said that he asked permission, it's still not right that he exposed the secrets of these tricks that some of our fellow magicians spent years of making... I really do not like it!

Ooooh Controversial topic here,

I cant really remember watching the show but doesnt he perform really odd tricks that really could only be done with a gigantic set most of the time etc.

I think i remember him making a live elephant dissapear behind a cage. It was done using mirrors i seem to remember.
He had to have a gigantic set up in order to perform this. Would a magician have this much set to perform with in a show.
I really cant remember it exactly so this could be wrong but...

I will leave my post there because i am not exactly sure of what I'm talking about. lol

True, a lot of the things were large-scale illusions, but at the end of the day that's still going to affect somebody's act.

What's more, in revealing these secrets he is also revealing principles and ideas behind other effects.

Actually, I may be wrong about that last part - it's been a while since I also saw a Masked Magician show so don't take that last comment as definite.

These shows that reveal street magic effects are more of a problem however as they've revealed things like the Raven etc.

Oh well.

Ice Knight wrote:the masked magician is obviously a failed magician

THE masked magician (Vallentino) is one of a number now since mainly countries show 'clone' shows. He is FAR from failed though, he was/is a very accomplished performer.

The later series are exposing increasingly good magic and it is rumoured that they are planning to expose the 'Laser-cut-in-half' that David Copperfield is ending his curently touring show with (he did most countries in europe outside of the UK ending in Berlin last week) which has its origins in the following illusion:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/36717/body_magic/

MagicTom wrote:Ooooh Controversial topic here,

I cant really remember watching the show but doesnt he perform really odd tricks that really could only be done with a gigantic set most of the time etc.

I think i remember him making a live elephant dissapear behind a cage. It was done using mirrors i seem to remember.
He had to have a gigantic set up in order to perform this. Would a magician have this much set to perform with in a show.I really cant remember it exactly so this could be wrong but...

I will leave my post there because i am not exactly sure of what I'm talking about. lol

YES!

The elephant vanish he used was from the 1950s -- the Melborn Christopher show -- and was actually performed on tv way back then and again in the late 70s when I performed it in the Bob Brauns show here in the states. And no, you don't need a massive set for doing this.

Many of the older illusion systems did use the entire stage in order to make them happen but this is still done today with bits like Lance's popular Suit Case Production and even his sword fight/double-exchange routine. In using the whole stage, you are able to take a relatively simple bit of business and make it look amazingly large and too, you are able to get away with certain "cheats" the audience generally never considers as possible or even practical.

Good Lord, haven't we beaten the topic of exposure to death?

Craig Bowning very accurately says: "Sorry guys, but only the wannabes fear exposure of this kind."

I's put it another way: It's just props that are being exposed.

And anyone who thinks the magic is in the props would take a piano apart trying to find the music!

I love that line peter

"anyone who thinks the magic is in the props would take a piano apart trying to find the music!"

I am very sorry but I must steal this line but I promise to use it for good only and never for evil.

Sorry for going off topic

Dean

Dean,
LOL!

Fell free to help yourself!