talkmagic.co.uk

To a certain extent I love the MM shows as I'm keen to know as much as I can about how it's done - hence my regular appearances on TalkMagic!

The general public may remember one or two of the revelations but the attention span is very short and I doubt that any real harm has been done to magic generally. It might have slightly dented the living of some dedicated professionals who have performed the same act successfully for years but that's life I suppose and they can probably switch to other routines for a while. I just regret that a TV company decided to make loadsa cash out of it!

I'm still very confused over how a professional magician can sternly vow to keep secrets - then writes a book of tricks for general sale! Don't get me wrong, I don't blame them for doing it but there does seem to be a weeny bit of hypocrisy involved - it's wrong to give away secrets but it's OK to sell them to anyone with the price of the book in their pocket. If they sold only via Magic shops or Clubs or something, I could understand it but they don't restrict it at all. OK, ignore me - I'm just in one of those moods!

That is a very valid point.
Magic boards spend so much time saying no secrets yet recommend magic videos and books etc day in day out. It just isn't a logical viewpoint.
Wanting to remain special and in the minority I can understand but saying secrets shouldn't be disclosed by magis is just plain weird as none of us would know ANYTHING if it wasn't for people breaking the golden rule.
I am sure for example Sankey, Derren, Paul etc are all still in the magic club of choice, yet they have all broken the rules, just they did it for money.
I also can't get my head round it, if somebody shows a genuine interest in magic and learning I sell out quicker than a pop group and show them whatever they want to know, lol.

I'll go get the flameproof suit off seige

edit : should add that doesn't say you can all pm me for secrets, I obey the rules of where I am

hey dare.
reminds me of a programme that was shown in the uk about a year ago. i cant think of its name. but it dealt with it all in a real clever way. it would show a few effects. and then how it was done. - it was always done with a gimick. and then it would perform the same effect but in a way that obviously couldnt use that gimick! so giveing the audience a buzz by revealing it. then again haveing them wowed scrating their heads. because it didnt use the secret theyd just been shown. example. they was a trick where a ring from a spectator was taken. and then vanished to appear in a gaffed box with a rattlesnake. but then they did it again where the box. was not gaffed. the box was completely different.
but im sure the secrets are very safe. imean theyll always want to make lots of money selling shows that expose. things. (specially on the advent of the blaine special) but magic is safe. take me. i looked and looked for it for years on and off. and must be the slowest learner cos i never really found much. it was like trying to search for that elusive holy grail lol
all and all id say you guys (and gals) keep your cards (spongeballs, coins hehe etc) very close to your chest (or sleeve is it???) lol. im sure its there for people who truly want it. but its performance and everything an art form
paul (disappears in a puff of smoke ..cough)

Checking the back issues of Magic Week, that was the BBC programme "The Secrets of Magic" shown on August 2nd 2003 and The Magic Circle Council received dozens of complaints from members about the unnecessary exposures. (It was also a crummy programme but that's another story!). As a result of that programme, resignations from The Magic Circle were accepted from Andrew O’Connor, Anthony Owen and Michael Vine. A request for Etienne Pradier to resign was actioned with immediate effect. Andy Nyman, having detailed his involvement and assured The Council that he would not be part of any future programmes of this nature, was suspended from membership for a period of six months. I'm sure I heard a while back that the Beeb are planning another 'Secrets of Magic' programme so they obviously haven't learned anything!

I saw the Magic's Great Secrets Revealed 4 on holiday and this was the one where the Masked Magician removed his mask and revealed himself to be Valentino (who?) and this time I listened more carefully to his explanation. I had the same idea as many that he did all the exposures to encourage magicians to stop doing the old stuff and move on to new effects. What he actually said was that he thought the audience would be more involved and get more of a buzz if they knew how the tricks were done, it was hurting nobody, and because of all the fuss over the shows everyone was talking about magic instead of playing computer games etc. He also said that the next time we see him he'd be performing new and amazing effects. Haven't seen him since, of course and Fox TV soon found another Masked Magician to do Show number 5!

Wow is the masked magician still around. I saw him when i was like 7 years old. I saw stuff cutting people in half, rabbit out or the hat and stuff like that but it was a long time ago.

Val Valentino popped up on the UK BBC2 History of Magic programme last Saturday - still waffling on about exposure of secrets being OK! It might make it's way on to PBS or BBC America soon so keep an eye out for it!

Let me be controversial if I may...

I think I agree with the Old Masked One. At least a bit.

I don't suppose for one minute it was he who decided to "break the code". More likely it was some TV exec looking for someone as the public face for it. The fall-guy. They changed him for the last series for example.

Sadly illusionists, conjurers, magicians (not sure about that word, even now it sounds more Merlin or the Supernatural...) et al. *do* rest on their laurels a bit. The same old tricks trotted out with varying degrees of skill. (I know - I'm at the lower end of the evolutionary ladder in that respect). The tricks are just as hard as they ever were to learn and master. A true skill which shouldn't be knocked. Still as entertaining as ever to the uninitiated of course.

But... being all hurt about secrets getting out in to the open is a bit conceited. Complaining because someone has discovered how you do something doesn't work in any other part of life so why should we (as lovers of trickery) be any different?

We have to learn new tricks, new ways to enthrall and entertain. For example, now wireless remote control is common-place, most lay-people can figure out a card rising from a pack might be controlled. It's a well-known technique so why would we expect it's use to remain a secret for long, just because we use it?

Remember the old, now common, phrase "... it's all done with mirrors..." ? Well now most audiences know to look out for their use - or at least suspect it. So their use has had to be made more sophisticated, more subtle.

Technology advances; ideas advance. One or two top-class acts try to keep ahead. For those though that chose to stay in the past, how long can you expect our tricks to remain hidden?

Phew! I now await a telling-off!!

I now await a telling-off!!

Sorry, you won't get one on TM - all courteously presented points of view are equally valid and welcome!

Val's actual reasoning was that knowing the secret enhanced the effect for the audience which really isn't true. The idea of forcing/encouraging new thinking is plausible and ought to be the norm anyway without exposure shows. There are probably a very large number of working pro's who entertain and make a living doing the same act for many years - they ought to evolve but if it ain't broke then they won't need to fix it. David Copperfield probably does the same effects several times over before moving on to new stuff but he'd need to do that otherwise he'd be overtaken.

Even after the 5 Secrets Revealed shows and one or two others revealing the secrets of Psychics, I doubt much real damage has actually been done - show someone the illusion where the MM passed through a large mirror and I'll bet they still have no idea how it was done. Apart from being done with mirrors, of course! Having watched the Revealed programmes a few times, I now treat them as training material rather than 'shock, horror, How dare he?' type of things.

Mandrake wrote:...Val's actual reasoning was that knowing the secret enhanced the effect for the audience which really isn't true...

I quite agree. In any walk of life, once a spectator knows how something is done, they often annoyingly say "Oh well, I could do that!" Of course the cutting reply might be "Well, why don't you then?" but it never gains any friends!

Being born equal (!) means we all have that choice.

Perhaps that's the real argument as to why magic should keep it's secrets. It's not luddism; not a deprivation of livelihood. Merely avoiding being put down as charlatans!

And as an aside -

Mandrake wrote:...David Copperfield probably does the same effects several times over before moving on to new stuff but he'd need to do that otherwise he'd be overtaken...

Ah, that's probably because he needs to recoup the money paid out the the illusions developers etc (Jim et al) !!!

Here's the masked magician...

"Hey people"

Despite Blane having done the bite out coin to death on TV and DVD, how many of you still get teriffic reactions from an audience when you perform it in front of their very eyes and they then realise that it isn't a camera trick?

I would suspect that the MM's motive is very similar with his potential audience then wanting to come along and pay to see if the trick or illusion can be replicated in front of their eyes.

A case of magic meets marketing!

Bye the way, whatever happened to Penn & Teller? They did something similar to the MM in that they revealled many classic magic tricks but with a totally different slant. Much better to watch as most of their reveals still left you guessing.

I would suspect that Copperfield's illusion makers pay him to perform their effects so that they can add the ' as performed by' endorsement sticker when they sell to the likes of us.

In the end, we pay and pass on the cost to our audience (if you're lucky enough to get paid)

The MM is back!! Courtesy of www.magicweek:

Breaking the Magician's Code 4 (Rpt)
0.40am on Tuesday 21st December (50 minutes) on ITV1.
"A special programme offering a unique insight into how magic tricks are performed. With the help of the 'Masked Magician' and backstage cameras it demonstrates how tricks are rigged."

Breaking the Magician's Code 3 (Rpt)
2.35am on Wednesday 29th December (45 minutes) on ITV1.
"The 'Masked Magician' reveals more secrets of how some of the world's most famous magic
tricks are performed. Including disappearing doves, shooting an arrow through a woman,
Houdini's famous water torture trick, and many others."

Most of what the MM exposes happens to be, as he implies, a lot of corny large-scale stage tricks. I don't believe in what he does and would rather he didn't do anything at all, but at least he doesn't get deeply into PK, special coins, TTs, IT, etc., which are constantly being reinvented by modern magicians.

People's memories are short, and they can be deceived again and again by the same methods presented differently. I doubt the MM has done any major long term damage to the art.

If I may express a more controversial point of view, I think there are parallels to the MM in other fields. For example, if you ever see a documentary on the lengths fashion photographers will go to get their subjects to look stunning in magazines you'd be amazed by the strange trickery they resort to (attaching hair to cardboard frames, etc.) but we all fall for it time and again. Likewise, you can expose Hollywood special effects for what they are over and over but people will still feel unsure about the latest UFO photos or videos, and will still jump out of their skin at horror movies.

The analogy isn't so far-fetched. It's all about artists trying to leave a powerful impression on their public. Yet who, as the images and excitement fade from mind, continues to believe that supermodel's hair really waves around like that of its own accord, or that alien autopsy video was genuine, or Copperfield really did move his molecules through the Great Wall of China? Very few, surely, yet it won't be long before they'll all be deceived again.

When I heard about the program, I was outraged, still am.

Even if the most of them might be outdated. There are still beginning artist, entertainers who start off with those.
People KNOW magicians are fooling them. But that's why people go to see a magician.
In the BBC program, someone stated :

"It was like depriving a child of happiness and the right to fantasise when you tell him Santa Claus does not exist."

And somehow this is true, As I said, people know we do tricks.


Being a magician, you are part of a group, you are collegues. Now what he did was simply backstapping a lot of collegues !! And that's how I see it.

Why ? I don't know, perhaps he didn't had any succes anymore and sought it this way ?
for the love of magic ???? don't make me laugh !!!!

for the love of money rather ??? yes