talkmagic.co.uk

Blaine: I enjoyed his street magic stuff, performing really close-up in a non-stage situation revamped the image of magic in the publics mind.
His attempts to be a third-rate Houdini I can live without, but I enjoyed his street magic shows.


Angel: The "demographic" that he's aimed at, ie: middle-class US males who listen to Nine Inch Nails and are desperately trying to rebel and look weird - is not something I'm part of. The odd illusion I have enjoyed but his methods seem to obvious and I find him rather gimmicky and annoying as a persona. His music is abysmal too.

Brown: is excellent and raised magic to another level in the minds of joe public in that his presentation is such that many people think he's for real.
I like some of his ideas and it's great to see someone doing something that's a bit different to normal mainstream magical entertainment.


I think that Paul Daniels is incredibly underated. It's sad that he's almost become a figure of ridicule in this country, yet he's one of the most accomplished magicians I have ever seen. His sleight of hand is good that even when he performs effects I know or perform myself, you cannot see any sleights taking place. It's a shame his shows (BBC series) aren't on DVD.

I.D wrote:I thought Blaine was the be all and end all of magic before I started studying.. quickly went off the guy while my respect for what his marketing has done for magic remains.

I was exactly the same.

I hate the way a lot of the time Criss's illusions require stooges to pull them off. Hes obviously talented, but know where near as amazing as the media suggests.

Derren Brown - Hes highly respected in my books, becuase of his creativity in performing, and i know for a fact that he doesn't use stooges (my bro was called up on stage, and performed the most mindboging trick I've ever seen )

Citrus wrote:

I.D wrote:I thought Blaine was the be all and end all of magic before I started studying.. quickly went off the guy while my respect for what his marketing has done for magic remains.

I was exactly the same.

I hate the way a lot of the time Criss's illusions require stooges to pull them off. Hes obviously talented, but know where near as amazing as the media suggests. Derren Brown - Hes highly respected in my books, becuase of his creativity in performing, and I know for a fact that he doesn't use stooges (my bro was called up on stage, and performed the most mindboging trick I've ever seen )

Remember thats from a lays point of view, not a magician.

Either way... they are entertaining the people... and thats their job.

Its not to trick or entertain other magicians... but to entertain the masses.


Every one raggs on how angel is... and yet almost none of them have seen his real stage show. That will just blow you away.
People also rag on his look. Who cares, let him look the way he wants to. It doesnt hurt you. Heck I am sure that there will be people that dislike your look.

There is a difference between a magician and an entertainer.

An entertainer will pull of a trick with spice and padder that will completely blow the audience away. Although he himself may not have any actual magic skill, he appears to.

A magician, on the other hand, has the skill and knows how to use it. A good magician is also an entertainer, in that he knows how to dress up a trick, but he will not stoop so low as to use "no skill tricks" often.

This is just my opinion and Blain, Angel, and Derren fall somewhere in with those two categories. (or in between.)

I am envious of my friends in 6th form, they have the chance to meat Derren brown as part of a physiology course. I love his work; he is a very talented and very clever man.

jessie... wrote:I am envious of my friends in 6th form, they have the chance to meat Derren brown as part of a physiology course. I love his work; he is a very talented and very clever man.

gah...I never got that...

Another vote for Derren Brown from me. I love his style, analyse his scripting and you will realise just how much work he puts into even the simplest of routines. He makes everything he does seem so believable - and that, to me, is the key.

Absolutely love Derren Brown... I was originally interested in hypnosis and NLP largely for the entertainment factor they could (possibly) deliver... stumbled across Derren, and hoping now to entertain those i envisioned entertaining with hypnosis with mentalism.

As an added bonus, the man has a character I instantly loved. Good sense of humour, coats, no corniness, and an English accent.

I think Criss Angel is a damn fantastic performer. Love his image as well. About 2 years ago, when I was reading a lot about energies and Wicca, etc., I believed that some of the stuff he could do was real haha (yes, go on, laugh at me ).

Blaine? Ermm... no real opinion on that fellow.[/b]

I like all three,
Blaine-Resurgence in magic, got people interesed in street magic,

Criss Angel- Lets face it guys, the only reason everybody watches his videos over and over to find how he does it is becuase we're so pi**ed off that he can do it and we HAVE to find it out. We love to hate Criss Angel. I've heard someone on some other magic forum say "He isnt a good magician, he uses mirrors and stooges.....etc" Guess what? So do other stage magicians. Criss Angel is a good magician.

Brown- Very mental, creepy to watch, what a good mentalist looks like

thats all i have to say

I'm a fan of derren brown 2, cuz his magic is very impressing
i really don't like david blane, cuz he has VERY simple tricks (i done them when i was 13) and he's too famous
but i personally like brian tudor, cuz he's a good tutor (and he's romanian like me)

lilchris15 wrote:I'm a fan of derren brown 2, cuz his magic is very impressing
I really don't like david blane, cuz he has VERY simple tricks (I done them when I was 13) and he's too famous
but I personally like brian tudor, cuz he's a good tutor (and he's romanian like me)

Theres nothing wrong with simple tricks. "Simple" can get just as good reactions if not better, than the "hard" tricks.
ITs really all in how you present the effects. Much to learn you have.

Oh, and Brain Tudor is a bad teacher in my opinion. There are much better teachers.

Also please work on your typing and spelling. Cuz and 2 arent words to be used. This is a forum, not AIM or Txt.

I LOVE dereen brown, I love the kind of performances he gives and just his general style of entertainment and magic - its VERY similar to the kind of magic / performance I (try) to give - influence oppinions / decisions and stuff

David Blains...hmm...I really thought that Vertigo and 'street magic' were amazing DVD's, they showed he had good card skills and could convince people he was a genuine magicna (plus, it was the first time I had really seen card magic be performed by a 'normal' person, rather than a magician with a tux and a top hat on stage) but frozen in time, the box stunt and the underwater one just didnt do it for me...

Chris Angel...this is even harder fro me - I have honestly never really watched ANY of his shows, I have only seen the occasional thing on youtube (bad to make a judgement based on youtube vids I know...) and from what I have seen he MUST use actors and stooges in many of his 'magic' tricks (one that springs to ind is the walking through a window routine where before he does a chain through neck...the chain just happens to be lying in the skip...as does a perfectly sized peice of paper...all seems a bit too convenient) - BUT Im sure he is a great magician...and I was VERY impressed when I purchased 'Coin in soda can' by him - so eoverall, mixed views

Dan
aka Magic Trev

A chain and a piece of paper means actors and stooges??? While the environment can often be controlled (and if you don't think every single tv performer doesn't control their performance venues, you're incredibly naive), it hardly means the entire situation is fake.

That would be the same as me claiming you used stooges because you brought your own deck of cards with you.

a couple of points,

I don't agree that props and gimmicks (Chain and paper strategically located) = "stooges".

Wayne Houchin created Coin through Soda can.

Blaine vs Angel vs Brown huh?

I can see all the posts for this thread are gonna make it a long one.

Three good choices to discuss though. Mainstream TV magicians unfortunately not only get most of the media attention...but they also seem to occupy a great deal of all OUR time too. Almost as if we've all been brainwashed into aspiring to be like either one of those three TV performers, or nothing at all. Weird.

Might be interesting to hear some of your guys opinions on contributions made to magic by the likes of Vernon, Marlo, Devant, Tarbell, Giobi, Daryl, Leipzig.....but anyway, thats for another post some other day I guess. Back to the point. Let's start with Blaine:

BLAINE - As much as it pains me say it, but a lot of us wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for Blaines refreshed performance take on close-up magic. It was only because reality TV was beginning to spread around the world like a plague......so of course, he jumps on the band wagon, and makes a reality TV magic show. Subsequently the sanctity of close-up magic has been forever desecrated with the now, more popular notion of, "street magic"

Im sure most new magicians would protest that they don't care what the name of their performance style is. They will only know it as "street magic" these days. So I guess I can hardly use this as my excuse for not particularly liking Blaine.....but if you want measure the guy's merit on his skill as a performer: His early stuff was simple, but effective (much to the annoyance of magicians who were better than him at the time his shows aired), and Blaines later stuff went, well, down the toilet really e.g:-

Does anyone here actually think standing on a pole, floating in a water bubble, lying underground, or staying awake in ice with a catheter tube in your penis constitutes as being magic? No, it doesn't does it. They are however, very good ideas for publicity stunts (which lets face it, was his point in doing them) He gets to promote himself more, without having to perform hardly any new material. Perfect for him, but not so entertaining for magicians who are the spawn of Blaine. Lots of new magicians began by worshiping the ground Blaine walks on, only to find themselves secretly hating the guy after they've gotten a basic knowledge of card sleights. Some often feel somewhat betrayed - "I can do that trick! Why's Blaine so famous for it then?" .....I've heard so many new magicians say things like this.

He did magic justice by generating an entire generations worth of new performers. It's a hard thing to do with today’s technology obsessed youth, to capture their interest with....a deck of cards. So lets face it, love him or hate him. No-one can deny that he's earned his place in magic history - Not for his skill, certainly not for his personality, but for the influx of interest in magic generally.


ANGEL – I’ll make this one short & sweet. No offence to the guy, im sure he’s probably the nicest, kind, most friendly man in the world if you got to know him better…..but isn’t it comforting to know that even if you’re stooge dependant, ugly bast**d, with a chin like an ass, a nose like a knee-cap, and still dress like your in high school when your pushing 40, that magic can get you a shag from the likes of Cameron Diaz and Brittney Spears. God bless magic ehh?


BROWN – and finally, we come to Derren, a mentalist predominantly, with a background in hypnosis and close-up card magic. What a combination! Coupled with the fact that the guy is very well educated, with charming sense of being ‘honest’ about his dishonesty as a magician. He never seems to present his non-psychological effects as just plain old magic tricks. He uses pseudo-science to give the audience a sense of ‘realism’ – This presentational point is excellently covered in The Devils Picture book and Trick of the Mind.

I always like to see this kind of commitment to the art form in a magicians performance. Magic has changed, maybe not in our eyes, but to the lay man it doesn’t hold the same magnitude as it would have done say 100, 200 & 300 years ago. Before anyone had a grasp on what magic was, magicians used to be worshiped like gods & prophets (devil worshipers mostly in the 1500’s) We live in a sceptical world these days. We walk amongst non-believers, even religion is failing to draw the crowds like it use to….so the point is, there seems to be little room left in the world for us magicians now that the average spectator always thinks he “knows how that one is done!”

So, it’s very welcoming to see some magicians adopting Derren’s style of, well, giving them a reason not to doubt what your doing basically. Its much more believable for a spectator to be told you’ve guessed their card by reading their body language, mannerisms, non-verbal communication, iris dilation etc….than to be patronized with “I read your mind” (yeah right!) Anyone you stop in the street will think you’re a bull shitter if you tell them that’s what your doing. Even if you succeed in correctly identifying their card, it will only take just one mention of the principle of mind reading for them to dismiss your efforts as: “Well, he obviously just knew what the card was from the start” People aren't as stupid as they were in the middle ages!

Magic is a tricky enough art form to pull off as being even just slightly believable at the best of times…..so I salute magicians like derren brown who use an extensive knowledge of psychology, pseudo-science, suggestion etc, to create what I think is one of the most believable ‘magic’ act around today.


SUMMARY –

BLAINE: Boring, uncharismatic, average close-up skill level, groundbreaking influence on the world of magic (7/10)

ANGEL: Mid life crisis dress-sense, average close-up skill level, excellent stage skill level, shamefully excessive use of stooges and TV editing (5/10)

BROWN: Intelligent, above average close-up skill level, excellent stage skill level, superb use of psychology in his mentalism (9/10)


So there you go, I’ve had my rant, god that feels good to get that off my chest. It’s quite therapeutic this forum isn’t it? Have a good weekend all.