Bang On - Marc Oberon

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Postby seige » Mar 9th, '07, 12:02



Ferrari...

You quite simply haven't grasped one of the simplest concepts of being a performer yet, it would seem:

YOU are the magic. Everything else is a tool.

I really do think you should take a course in spectator management if it's a prerequisite that your tools should be examinable.

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Postby ferrari1 » Mar 9th, '07, 12:15

OK seige, whatever you say!

So let's go through a little dialogue here. You've just performed the effect at my table. I was midly impressed, but now ask

'Let's have a look at that envelope'.... what do you reply...

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Postby seige » Mar 9th, '07, 12:25

Firstly, I'd class you as a heckler.

Secondly, performance wise, I wouldn't have given you the opportunity.

Thirdly, everyone else would consider you rude.

It's very VERY rare that in performance situations you would have someone doing that. In this instance, it is the skill of the performer which STOPS the need for such questions.

Only children, in my experience, are so inquisitive. Intelligent adults will take the magic at entertainment value.

However, in this case, I would gladly give you the envelope and watch you embarrass yourself when you find it to be completely normal.

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Postby ferrari1 » Mar 9th, '07, 12:31

OK, well I can see this is going straight over everyone's head here...

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Postby seige » Mar 9th, '07, 12:32

ferrari1 wrote:OK, well I can see this is going straight over everyone's head here...


Not at all.

I know exactly what you're up to.

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Postby IAIN » Mar 9th, '07, 12:33

seige wrote:Firstly, I'd class you as a heckler.

Secondly, performance wise, I wouldn't have given you the opportunity.

Thirdly, everyone else would consider you rude.


i think ferrari has gone straight to step 3....

ferrari, each to their own, but well...just take it on the chin and go buy the damn thing and improve upon it if you can....

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Postby gunnarkr » Mar 9th, '07, 12:37

Wow... we seem to have a highly intelectual creature in our forums, that is above the level of introducing himself to the others, above the level of the stupid illusionists in the forum and above the level of reason.

Just stay on your platform, perform magic that can be ripped apart and examined and don't bother the rest... (untill you can at least make a proper introduction).

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Postby kems » Mar 9th, '07, 12:37

seige wrote:Firstly, I'd class you as a heckler.

Secondly, performance wise, I wouldn't have given you the opportunity.


Agreed.... it just dont happen, sounds like you are performing to friends etc who would do that!

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Postby Carl Buck » Mar 9th, '07, 12:51

Ferrari,

After you've see a performance do you ask the magician to empty out his pockets, roll up his sleeves, hand over all coins, check his wallet and examine his ring, watch and fingers? Or do you take the magician for what he is, a talented individual entertaining people?

Anyone with an ounce of common sense KNOWS that what they've just seen isn't MAGIC, it is an illusion created by the skills of the performer.

Or can you really pass coins through glass and read peoples minds? :?

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Bang On

Postby Gochos The Greek » Mar 9th, '07, 15:15

ferrari1 seems to be a better performer than everyone here put together.

What even amazes me is that while some of the greats in mentalism believe Bang on to be a fantastic item, ferrari1 still believes that the layperson will want to see inside the wallets or envelopes. Marc Oberon has performed this for many years and hasn’t had one person want to examine the envelopes.

So ferrari1 you say you won’t perform anything where a spectator will question the props, so my question is how can you call yourself a magician if you do not perform magic?

Explain, please, as I am really confused here. You never use a pack of cards, as a spectator will now you did something dodgy with them like a DL or something... You will never use coins as they will be gimmicked—from a layperson's view, never do sleight of hand as everything goes up your sleeve. Hmmm, so that rules you out of performing anything, so you cannot be performing magic for anyone, thus you are not a magician.

Let's get back to this product, which in my opinion is one of the most ingenious items I have seen the past couple of years, and only took me 5 minutes to master. Unfortunately we are always going to encounter people like ferrari1.

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Postby copyright » Mar 9th, '07, 16:32

There seems to be a lot of self-delusion in this thread but that's nothing unsual with magicians. If a spectator doesn't ask to see your props then ask yourself why. If 'rudeness' features in the answer, stop calling yourself a magician.

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Postby seige » Mar 9th, '07, 16:42

copyright wrote:There seems to be a lot of self-delusion in this thread but that's nothing unsual with magicians. If a spectator doesn't ask to see your props then ask yourself why. If 'rudeness' features in the answer, stop calling yourself a magician.


Your statement is actually illogical.

If a spectator doesn't ask to see props, that's the sign you're doing things right. I am assuming that you are suggesting that if something is so amazing it can't be explained, then by nature someone will want to examine the items which caused this miracle?

And yes, it's bloody rude for people to ask 'can I see that'. The reason being, it's impolite to interrupt a performer whilst they are working. And don't tell me 'People are naturally curious, they have a right to know'... poppycock.

Not once have I, or ever heard on anyone who has ever written to a film director and asked him why a particular scene played out as it did, because I respect their judgement and vision. It would be rude to question why.

And if you READ MY POST, I mention that fellow spectators would find the offender rude, as it's surely interrupting their own entertainment.

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Postby Renato » Mar 9th, '07, 17:14

ferrari, maybe you should check out Kenton Knepper's "Secrets of Indirection"...

I can think of several minor additions before commencing the performance of Bang On which really would make it very unlikely that anyone asks to see the envelope.

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Postby copyright » Mar 9th, '07, 17:52

seige wrote:
copyright wrote:There seems to be a lot of self-delusion in this thread but that's nothing unsual with magicians. If a spectator doesn't ask to see your props then ask yourself why. If 'rudeness' features in the answer, stop calling yourself a magician.


Your statement is actually illogical.

If a spectator doesn't ask to see props, that's the sign you're doing things right. I am assuming that you are suggesting that if something is so amazing it can't be explained, then by nature someone will want to examine the items which caused this miracle?

And yes, it's bloody rude for people to ask 'can I see that'. The reason being, it's impolite to interrupt a performer whilst they are working. And don't tell me 'People are naturally curious, they have a right to know'... poppycock.

Not once have I, or ever heard on anyone who has ever written to a film director and asked him why a particular scene played out as it did, because I respect their judgement and vision. It would be rude to question why.

And if you READ MY POST, I mention that fellow spectators would find the offender rude, as it's surely interrupting their own entertainment.


Look at this!
Can I see it?
No, how rude!


It's rude for adults to ask to see magic props because we all know that unless the magician offers out the props for inspection the props can't be inspected without ruining the effect. To ask the magician for a closer look at his props is to, in effect, ruin the magic for everyone else. The minute he reveals that the props can't be inspected, he is transformed from a magician to a technician.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seige, the statement in my original post can not be 'illogical'. The reasoning behind it appears in this post.

It is rude to interrupt a performance, I agree, but this isn't the rudeness I'm talking about.

The fact that you have never heard of a film director being asked to talk about, explain why s/he did this or that, made so-and-so decision - is simply unbelievable. Film directors are asked those question every time they release a film, and if it is a particularly great one, they are asked those questions for the rest of their lives. However, this is unapplicible to this situation. We're not talking about spectators asking why you chose to appear a card in an envelope or why it was in a wallet.

The point I am making is that it is considered rude to ask a magician to see his props because to do so is to knowly ruin an effect.

Which is why, if I use props, I like to end clean, so everything that was touched by magic can be touched by the audience.

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Postby seige » Mar 9th, '07, 18:01

Well, as we're at cross purposes, I concede.

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