The New Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnotism by Ormond McGill

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Re: hmmm

Postby MasterCyde » Apr 19th, '09, 22:52



funnyman50 wrote:i have always been tempted to buy a hypnoise book but they all look to good to be true. i am trying to put together a good skill set alot of mentalism bit of hypnois bit of magic mainly card and bar tricks. thanks for the review


All you need is 'Reality Is Plastic by Anthony Jacquin'

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Postby funnyman50 » Apr 19th, '09, 23:27

Thanks for that will cheack it out :D

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Postby mark lewis » Apr 20th, '09, 00:03

The Mc'Gill book has everything you need. There are a couple of other books appertaining to stage hypnosis that I quite like though. One is by Jerry Valley, one is by Dr Svengali and one is by Dr David Tracy. I cannot remember a single title -only the authors. The one by David Tracy will be hard to obtain since it is long out of print.

Of course my favourite hypnosis course is my own set of 3 DVDs and audiotape. Naturally it is the best of the lot. Not that I am the type to brag of course.

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Postby funnyman50 » Apr 20th, '09, 10:26

There is so much i need to look at after finding the forum i have discoverd how many gold nuggets there are out there its mind blowing :shock:

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Postby MasterCyde » Apr 20th, '09, 12:19

funnyman50 wrote:There is so much i need to look at after finding the forum i have discoverd how many gold nuggets there are out there its mind blowing :shock:


Get this, trust me..

http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic26902.php

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Postby TonyB » Apr 20th, '09, 12:19

Ormond McGill's book was the first thing I read when I got accidentally booked to do a hypnosis show a number of years ago. There was enough there to get me through the night. But as my experience grew I could see clearly that the book is not the best place to start out.
He has far too many inductions in the book. For a beginner it is a complete information overload. Some of his inductions are bizarre, including one where you massage the person into trance without saying a word. I ended up doing a progressive relaxation induction for my first show, which is far too long-winded for stage work. You don't need thirty inductions to become a hypnotist, but I suppose you do need thirty inductions if you are trying to pad out 650 pages.
McGill makes no effort to classify the inductions and steer you towards those best for stage hypnosis.
There is a lot of irrelevant junk included about hypnotising animals, etc. And he includes some (thankfully not much) of his ESP mumbo-jumbo.
I found far too many suggestibility tests. Back in the fifties that might have worked on an audience but today the show must move faster. I have eliminated suggestibility tests from my show, and that works well for me.
I did find his information on structuring an act and planning routines useful. And he has a very comprehensive section on the Dr Q show, which is essential reading for anyone enterested in an electric chair routine. The Dr Q show really works - I have used it occasionally, and probably should do it more. It is hypnosis without hypnosis - I can't say more without tipping the method.
All in all I would give this seven out of ten for experienced pros, and four out of ten for beginners. It is not a beginners book, any more than Ian Rowland's book is the right place for beginners to learn cold reading. (Having said that I would give Ian's book a ten out of ten).
For a beginner I would recommend Eddie Burke's Secrets of Professional Stage and Cabaret Hypnosis, available through his website www.mreenterprises.co.uk. Also David Knight had a great e-book out on hypnosis, though I can't remember the name.

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Postby mark lewis » Apr 20th, '09, 13:02

I find suggestibility tests great entertainment in themselves and they help to induce hypnosis when you do eventually get around to the induction.

As for Ian Rowland's book it is a load of old codswallop. I will admit that it sounds good though. However not one psychic of my acquaintance (and I know many both shut eye and open eye) use a single technique in his book. Come to think of it neither does Ian since he has never done a paid reading in his life.

I have done thousands many of which have been in Ireland. I became psychic overnight there and garnered much press publicity.

With regard to hypnosis I find it interesting that there are now other hypnotists in Ireland. When I was there were only two and one of them spent most of his time trying to destroy any others who attempted to appear. It looks like he didn't succeed since there seem to be more around than there were.

Interestingly enough the two best hypotists I have ever seen both lived in Ireland. One was Paul Goldin who recently passed away. A great man indeed. He is mentioned in the Ormond Mc'Gill book and he admired Ormond saying to me "Ormond? The American guy? Oh, he's good"

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Postby funnyman50 » Apr 20th, '09, 16:12

thank you mastercyde my freind my copy is on the way i dont know how you lot learn s much i doth my cap to you all :D

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Postby D_Sharp » Apr 20th, '09, 17:19

Thanks for the review, looks top notch! Image

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Postby TonyB » Apr 20th, '09, 23:45

Interesting post from Mark Lewis. As one of the (more than) two hypnotists now working in Ireland, I am intriqued by the two hypnotists who worked back in your days here. The two I remember growing up were Paul Goldin and Barry Sinclair, though there was a third, Tony Sadir. I am a huge fan of Barry Sinclair (who is still gigging regularly) though I did not have the same regard for the late Paul Goldin, for reasons I will not go into on this forum. But he did put on a good show.
Which one of them was trying to kill off the opposition? I have always found Barry helpful and encouraging.
If you don't want to respond publicly, can you let me know privately? I am just intensly curious.
As for Ian Rowland, I am no expert. I learned cold reading from Joe Riding's works, along with a few others, including Lee Earle. I have since read Ian's book, and it seems very comprehensive - though he makes it clear that it is not a how-to book. All the best. Tony.

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Postby mark lewis » Apr 21st, '09, 02:02

I knew both Paul and Barry. The odd thing is that neither of them believed in the reality of hypnosis although I expect neither of them would admit it publicly.
Both excellent showmen. However it was Paul who first told me to become a stage hypnotist. He also told me that hypnotism was a load of old cobblers. I could never say this while he was alive and still practicing. His actual words to me were "I was number one for 35 years. In all that time I never hypnotised a single person on stage"

I then asked him "How do you make those people do those crazy things then?" He said "You manipulate them, don't you?"

And he was correct. I have been manipulating them ever since.

Paul had a reputation as being a bit of a rogue so that is probably why you aren't keen on him. I got on well with him since I had heard of him for years and years from my uncle who studied medicine with him and was a great friend of his.

When I first met Paul I told him that I had first heard of him 30 years before from my uncle. He told me that my uncle urged him not to give up medicine. I suppose in one way he didn't.

A great showman as well as a great scam artist. And when I say someone is a scam artist I mean it as a compliment.

And of course Barry Sinclair is a great scam artist too. I am glad he is still doing well.

As for Tony Sadar he always had a great voice. And that is half the battle sometimes. I never saw him do hypnotism but I certainly saw him do mentalism and I learned something from him that I use to this day.

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Postby mark lewis » Apr 21st, '09, 20:58

On this voice matter I once asked a woman agent in Ireland who she preferred-Barry Sinclair or Paul Goldin. She immediately exclaimed, "Oh, Paul Goldin of course-there is no comparison" I was surprised by this since I thought they were equally as good as each other so I asked her why. She said, "Paul Goldin has the better voice". Her comment does focus on something a lot of performers never think about. The voice alone can be half the battle. If you have a good voice you are blessed by the Gods. If you haven't it is an area to work on.

On the other hand I once asked a similar question to a hotel manager who had seen both Barry Sinclair and Paul Goldin appear in his establishment. He was far more even handed. He said that Paul Goldin was better for those people who believed in hypnosis and took it more seriously but Barry was better for those who just wanted a laugh and a good night out.

Fairly accurate assessment I would have thought.

I once saw Goldin perform at the Olympia theatre. He was superb but the magician and critic in me wondered if the show was dragging. However I looked around and saw people on the edge of their seats with their mouths agape in astonishment. Goldin could inspire awe and amazement as well as laughter and I have never seen a hypnotist who could do this like he could. He announced to the audience "Do you realise that you have been watching me for THREE HOURS?" I looked around and saw that he had been holding the whole audience spellbound for that length of time and I realised then that I had seen an exceptional showman.

He was not a magician and performed no magic in his show. Yet he was able to hold an audience for that length of time. Granted there was an intermission but it still takes an incredible showman to do something like that.

He horrified me somewhat by telling his audience that he was going to recite a holy hindu mantra to induce deeper hypnosis. The reason that he horrified me was that he started to recite Kaddish which is a very sacred Jewish prayer for the dead normally used at funerals. To use this on stage
on sleeping people would be considered quite offensive to Jewish people. However there are very few Jews in Ireland so that was how he got away with it.

During his show he used various scams to make people come back night after night. In truth I think they impressed me even more than his show! He had all these various gimmicks and I wish I could remember them. They were all valuable money spinners that I have never seen a hypnotist use. The only thing I can remember is that he had some sort of promotion called a "doctor's night"

Barry Sinclair learned a lot from Paul Goldin and Paul complained to me that Barry stole his act and came in every night to watch him. They were friends but wary friends. They even went on holiday together. I think it was on the principle that you should keep your enemies close so you know what they are doing.

I remember the night that Paul came to watch Barry perform at the Olympia and although they were outwardly friendly to each other (with Barry even introducing Paul from the stage) the tension was terrible.

The good old art of Irish backstabbing was in full swing. I discovered long ago that just because someone is friendly to you in Ireland it doesn't mean a thing. The Irish never stab you in the front-they far prefer to pretend friendliness and stab you in the back. Part of the culture.

Paul was furious and steaming mad that Barry had the temerity to be putting on a show in what he perceived as his own venue and even though the theatre seemed to be full he told me on the phone a year or so later that he had checked the theatre figures and Barry had actually lost money on the venture presumably because of all the free tickets he had handed out.

Paul was in box watching the show and I was with him. His body language while watching Barry was a revelation. He was obviously furious and made the odd negative comment. He had no idea that Barry had planted a bugging device in the box and heard every word!

He refused to visit Barry after the show and told me to make some excuse or other to explain his absence. Barry was delighted to hear of Paul's upset and said "I have toppled the biggest star in Irish showbusiness" and told me about the bug in the box.

I suppose I had better stop gossiping. Poor old Paul is dead and gone. I thought he was one of the greatest stage hypnotists of the twentieth century and I always had great admiration for his nerve and charisma.

If it hadn't been for him I would never have take up stage hypnosis. He advised me to when I bumped into him in a department store. He said "I don't know why you don't do stage hypnosis. You have the Chutzpah for it"

Now if one of the greatest stage hypnotists of the twentieth century advises me that I should take up hypnotism I would be a fool not to follow the advice.

And the best thing he ever told me about it was that it was a load of old baloney and didn't even exist.

I hope to God none of his previous hypnotherapy clients read this.

I consider him to be a great man and one of the most memorable people I have ever met in my entire life. And I bet that Barry Sinclair, despite his differences with Paul, thinks the same way.

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Postby TonyB » Apr 22nd, '09, 00:12

Thanks for all that fascinating information Mark. I know Barry and Paul were close friends in the last few years of Paul's life. I was once hypnotised by Paul (though as you say, he never hypnotised anyone, and I wasn't hypnotised that night), but aside from that I did not know him. I was never hypnotised by Barry, but got to know him quite well over the years. He's very engaging company, and I have alwasy found him helpful and encouraging. A number of years ago I did a brief spot on a show he was MCing. Afterwards he turned to me and, in all sincerity, said I should turn pro. Shortly afterwards I did. I realise now he was probably just being kind and encouraging, but it gave me a big boost at the time.
I remember Paul had all sorts of gimmicks and techniques to encourage people to come back again, and I think it is these that turned me off him. They included selling psychological profiles after the show, and offering people who came back again and volunteered help with personal problems. Over here the feeling is that Paul had the scary show, and Barry the funny one.
I know Barry has expressed the view that no one is ever hypnotised on a stage. He told me that if he was ever sued that would be his defence. In my first year or so I did not know whether to believe or not, but I am now firmly in the Paul and Barry camp - and I find my shows run far better when I assume I am directing people rather than hypnotising people. Though obviously I will never tell my public that.
How long did you do shows in Ireland? And how did you find Irish audiences, compared to those in the US and other places? Thanks for all the gossip. Tony.

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Postby mark lewis » Apr 22nd, '09, 02:18

I never did hypnosis shows in Ireland. That developed in Canada but Paul Goldin planted the seed. I did plenty of children's magic shows and sold svengali decks. However my main income was as a psychic and in my days there I became quite famous for that activity.

I had psychic phone lines running which were voice activated and by sheer coincidence the company I was dealing with had a large office rented to them by Paul Goldin. I didn't realise that Paul was the landlord and they were the tenant. For years I thought it was the other way round. I can be a bit slow sometimes.

I had full page newspaper articles and even two page spreads in the Irish press and lots of newspaper publicity on a regular basis. I never went to the press-they always came to me. And of course radio and television.

I expect Barry had a more genuine friendship with Paul Goldin once Paul gave up the stage and concentrated on hypnotherapy where he did very well. Paul told me that he had a car accident and started to become dizzy on stage so was forced to give up the showbusiness side of things.

Once the two of them stopped being competitors I expect the tension eased. In those days Barry was quite ruthless with competition-he didn't like it at all. I could tell you some stories but I won't. I expect he has calmed down now with age. He and Paul were the two of the best 3 hypnotists I have ever seen. The other was master showman of Blackpool
Lorde Payne who has been dead and gone for many years.

I have never seen anyone to equal these three.

Paul was more suited to the theatre than the bar scene. In fact Barry eased him out of the bars in the early days. Paul would insist on no drink being served at certain points in the show such as the induction etc; Barry went to the pub owners and told them that he didn't care if booze was served or not. And of course trying to tell people in Ireland that they can't drink is a feat of momentous proportions.

Paul is the only hypnotist I have come across that people would talk about in hushed tones. He had a scientific tinge to his shows that people would be in awe of. I have an old poster of his in front of me where he says that he is "sometimes spine chilling" That is what he conveyed quite well. And the interesting thing is that the word "hypnosis" was hardly used in his show if at all. He implied strongly that he didn't hypnotise anyone-he was using mind control of some sort and even hinted that he was using E.S.P.

Since this thread is about Ormond Mc'Gill's book I expect you know that Paul is mentioned twice in it. On the other hand the book is so massive that you may well have missed it. Paul had no idea he was in the book even though the earlier edition had been out for years and he had been in the book for decades. I told him he was in the book and he was quite expressionless. He merely took the book from me and photocopied the pages where he was mentioned. It was weird that he had been in the book for decades and he didn't know about it.

I spoke to Ormond Mc'Gill on the phone once and he spoke well of Paul.
And incidentally although I can't prove it I have reason to believe that Ormond knew hypnosis was a load of guff as well. And I think he thought so about the psychic new age stuff he used to babble about too.

As for being sued it hasn't happened yet but it crossed my mind that if I were I would also do what Barry said. I would claim that hypnosis didn't exist. However I think Barry should have a few cards printed up which tell the subjects on stage to play along with things and keep it a secret. He needn't use these cards but they could be useful as evidence if he ever got sued.

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Postby TonyB » Apr 22nd, '09, 18:14

Again, thanks for more fascinating detail. I remember seeing Paul mentioned in the encyclopedia. And a routine was described which sounded like one of Barry's.
It's been so long since I have seen Paul's show that I can't say much about it, except that I enjoyed it. But I have seen Barry's show often, and have seen dozens more hypnotists over the years. Barry stood head and shoulders above all I have seen. A tremendous showman.
Isn't it a shame that guys like these didn't record DVDs or put their experience between the pages of a book?

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