What to learn first from Bobo?

Struggling with an effect? Any tips (without giving too much away!) you'd like to share?

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Postby Adam Boyes » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:35 am



How is everyone else getting on with Bobo after using this thread?

It's helped me loads! I'm now practicing the Simple Vanish and did it in front of the missus the other day and she said it really looked like I put the coin in the other hand! YAY...

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Postby seige » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:42 am

It's actually made me pick it up again. I've not read it in about 3 years!

Thanks chappies

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Postby Lord Freddie » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:58 am

This is a great thread and MIchael Jay's posts are informative and inspiring. Well done, matey!

There's just so much to learn in Bobo and you couldn't learn and perform it all unless you dedicated yourself exlusively to coins. I learnt the basics from vol 1 of Tarbell and Bobo (great name by the way) has helped me expand upon it.
Regarding coin sleights, there are some great ones in Harry Lorayne's Apocalypse books. Some great vanishes and some good routines. Worth looking at for coin workers.

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Postby Slightly Magic » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:53 pm

Hi there - I'm just starting out with Bobo, which has been made a whole lot easier by this thread. Can I ask a bit of a newbie question though?

I've had a go at most of the concealments. Most are as-yet imperfect, but we're getting there. I get most of them in theory. However, I'm having difficulty with the Thumb Palm, specifically getting the coin into the right position.

When I grip the coin between then 1st and 2nd fingers, and curl them inwards, the coin doesn't come anywhere near the upper surface of the palm. It just crashes into the ball of the thumb. The only way I can do it is to have the thumb pointing downwards, getting the coin sort of in position, then 'scraping' it into the right spot by bringing the thumb back up again.

I can't imagine ever being able to do this without moving the thumb. Is there a particular knack?

Great thread, by the way!

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Postby Michael Jay » Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:44 pm

Slightly Magic wrote:When I grip the coin between then 1st and 2nd fingers, and curl them inwards, the coin doesn't come anywhere near the upper surface of the palm. It just crashes into the ball of the thumb. The only way I can do it is to have the thumb pointing downwards, getting the coin sort of in position, then 'scraping' it into the right spot by bringing the thumb back up again.

I can't imagine ever being able to do this without moving the thumb. Is there a particular knack?


All of our hands are different. With my hands, I have very slim fingers with enlarged knuckles. As a result, you can see right through my hands (called "windows"), making even a simple finger palm extremely difficult. Now, you can't really understand my problem in the written word, but when magicians see my fingers for the first time, they look at me with this expression: :shock:

It is terribly difficult for me. Back clips and back palms are fully impossible (physically impossible really, but anything that I can do will obviously show the coin). My knuckles get in the way, the coin cannot be held and even if is was, it would be terribly apparant that the coin was there. However, there are ways around this (like "Half Dollar to Quarter" on page 73 of Bobo)...You see, with a coin sitting directly over the clipped coin, it allows me to cover the fact that the coin is there and that I can do!

It's all about overcoming your own, personal problems. To do this, you routine your material. You look at all the tools presented to you and you use them to your own, personal advantage. This requires work, time and thought on your part, but it is certainly within your grasp if your are willing to put that work, time and thought into it.

Now, to your thumb palm...When you say the "ball" of your thumb, do you mean the pad or do you mean nearer to the crotch? If your fingers are short, which means that you cannot get the coin all the way back to where it belongs, then you'll have to hold the coin at the very tips of the first and middle fingers, to try to get it back as far as you can. Then, yes, unfortunately you will have to do some fiddling to get it into proper position. Then again, you either learn to misdirect at that problematic point or you learn to deal with it from a shortened position. Either way, you can get around it.

If you mean that the coin goes too far back, then learn to put the coin deeper into to grasp between the first and middle fingers, which will then line the coin up into the proper spot.

No matter what, if you cannot get it into position without the fiddling, then build some misdirection into that very second where the fiddling must take place. With some practice, you'll get the fiddling down to a minimum and with some properly placed misdirection, you'll get it down to being deceptive. Work with what you have...That's the best that any of us can do.

If all else fails, then you simply don't do any magic that requires a thumb palm. There is a massive amount of coin magic that can be done even if you take away the thumb palm. For my part, I'd like to be able to back palm, but I cannot...Therefore, I do coin magic that doesn't require that particular tool. Such is life. :wink:

Mike.

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Postby Michael Jay » Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:09 pm

I've done some more thinking on this...

Why is your thumb in a "down" position? The thumb should be positioned, relaxed, and sitting on the very top of the hand (so that all fingers and thumb are flush with the palm). This is difficult to explain...

Do you know what it looks like when an American Indian says, "How?" That would be the position that you want when going into a thumb palm.

Put your hand flat, on a table. Flat. Fingers and thumb altogether, flat on the table. That's the position that you want your thumb to be in for moving into a thumb palm.

If your thumb is "underneath" the top (or edge) of your hand, then certainly the coin is going to crash into the thumb. The thumb will be in the way. Get your thumb out of the way, right from the "get go."

An unnatural position? Certainly. But, as previously stated, the thumb palm is an unnatural sleight. Look earlier on this thread, I've covered the unnaturalness of the thumb palm. It really is an unnatural way to hold your hand.

Mike.

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Postby Slightly Magic » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:18 pm

Hi Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to reply - I really appreciate it.

Firstly, I sympathise with the enlarged knuckles scenario. When I hold the coin between the first and fourth finger, there's no room for the second and third to fit through the gap between them. The big knuckles just pop the first and fourth apart on the way through et voila, coin on floor. But I can make my peace with that.

The thumb palm. I could perhaps have explained my difficulty better. Let's say I've got my hand on its side, in a nice 'karate chop' pose. I take the coin between the first and second, which I curl inwards. In doing so, I am attempting to 'post' it into the gap between the palm and the thumb.

My problem is not that the coin is too far forward or too far back, but rather that it is too low. When I curl inwards, the coin comes up against the palm - specifically that fleshy bit at the bottom of the thumb. The reason the thumb comes down is that this action seems to lower the upper edge of the palm far enough to pop the coin on top, after which the thumb comes back up, over the coin, and squeezes it in place.

I am quite happy to accept that this is a bit cack-handed, and if there was a more elegant way, I would like to learn to do it properly. Hopefully, it'll come with more practice!

Doug.

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Postby Michael Jay » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:00 pm

Okay, you may have to resign yourself to doing this in a "funky" way, but it sounds a bit like the problem that jbauerctu was experiencing. You may have missed this bit of advice, so I'll reprint it here - give this a try:

As you bring the coin back between the first and middle fingers, the middle finger should move ever so slightly forward of the index finger. This will give the coin a very slight tilt upwards and the coin will deposit into its position a bit easier. Slowly, do this...Give it a try. The middle finger and first finger curl in, to deposit the coin, the middle finger moves ever so slightly ahead of the index, the coin slightly tilts up and you deposit it.

Just keep on trying! :wink: Oh, and adapt and overcome.

Mike.

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Postby Slightly Magic » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:26 am

Nice.

That tilt makes all the difference. It still needs a bit of work, but I'm on the way now. Thanks for the tip!

Sorry to hijack the thread. Carry on.

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Postby Michael Jay » Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:19 pm

...

Last edited by Michael Jay on Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Mandrake » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:42 pm

Yet again Mike, we owe you a huge debt for all this. Trouser cuffs, or 'turnups' as we call them in the UK, are a thing of fashion and will be 'in' or 'out' quite regulalrly. It's all a question of timing. I well remember one Uncle, a habitual smoker, using his turnups as an impromptu ashtray!

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Postby Michael Jay » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:50 pm

My general concern here, Mandrake my Brother, is that I'm coming very close (well, technically stepping over the lines) of exposure on the open forum.

My hope is that the amount of information within the exposure makes it worthy to be on the open forums, without the fear of anyone screaming, "Exposure!!!" at me. This is particularly of importance to me, considering my stand on exposure. In some ways, I feel that I am indicting myself in this consideration...

But, it has been my pleasure to do what I am doing here and I thank you most kindly for your words of support and recognition. :P

And, I have to ask...Was that impromptu ashtray that your Uncle used concious, or unconcious? :wink:

Thanks again, Mandrake.

Mike.

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Postby Mandrake » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:16 pm

No worries, we'd edit anything which folk thought was over the line but it looks like everyone is just soaking up the advice gartefully so carry on! As for my dear old Uncle, he was just an untidy guy, I never found out what he did with all the ash in his turnups. I do remember he was eventually cremated.....

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Postby Slightly Magic » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:46 pm

As a relative Johnny-come-lately, I'm still a good few weeks behind the rest of the class, but I wanted to echo the sentiments of my fellow would-be coin-workers and say thanks for all your efforts on this, Mike.

I've taken to printing your diatribes out so I can read them on the bus to and from work - a most enjoyable and informative way to pass the time!

Doug.

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Postby Michael Jay » Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:20 pm

(This is a "burned" post.)

I want to start the next part on top of the page, so I am burning this post to get that which I want. Call it vanity if you please. Call it the "look at me" syndrome, if you will. But, I am on the edge of posting the next step and I'd really like it to be at the very top...

Certainly, you can post at this point and make it show up further down the line, but presently I am working on step two of part two and it will be up...If not later today, then early tomorrow.

Carry on.

:wink:

Mike.

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