talkmagic.co.uk

Just to add as my own final piece in this thread - I respect and enjoy reading about different people's takes on this reading game. I feel that the more information and viewpoints one manages to gleam, the better.

One thing I don't like is magicians thinking they can read one e-book and then go out and start making a living from psychic parties or somesuch. However I see no evidence of such an attitude amongst the regular posters on TM. We do all seem a very earnest and studious bunch and although at times we may disagree on certain aspects of readings I think this is a good thing. If we all did readings in one certain manner it would be very boring.

themagicwand wrote:Just to add as my own final piece in this thread - I respect and enjoy reading about different people's takes on this reading game. I feel that the more information and viewpoints one manages to gleam, the better.

One thing I don't like is magicians thinking they can read one e-book and then go out and start making a living from psychic parties or somesuch. However I see no evidence of such an attitude amongst the regular posters on TM. We do all seem a very earnest and studious bunch and although at times we may disagree on certain aspects of readings I think this is a good thing. If we all did readings in one certain manner it would be very boring.

Amen!

Not to mention the fact that it gets dang boring doing the same type of Reading day in and day out... It's taken me three years to shift away from being known as a Tarot Reading in the area and get the Numerology thing rolling... people (the public) do wear blinders at times but if you give them variety they will love you for it!

Hello Chris,

Good luck. Just relax and you'll do fine. Breathe, listen to your intuition, and don't force things.

Love,

Amanda Angeli

mark lewis wrote:Tomo is not a professional psychic in the way that Reverend Browning and I happen to be. He therefore should not correct the teachers. I have no idea what he is arguing with Craig about since the discussion seems to be terribly long winded and too full of big words for me to follow. However since Craig is the professional and Tomo is not then I think he should bow down to the wisdom of the master.

Tut tut, Mark. You of all people know that you can't get a rise out of me any more. My internal dialogue shifts to Stewey Griffin when I read your posts.

How the hell am I supposed to know who the hell Stewey Griffin is? I am not psychic you know.

Oh, the poor souls who have no idea of the genius and cunning of the magnificent Stewie Griffin.

Blapsing_Beard wrote:Basically - they have a memory, and you "appear" to just start revealing it piece by piece "it;s a happy memory...you were about 8 or 9...it was your birthday...you were brought a horse..."

So, doing what Derren Brown did on 'Born Slippy'?

For what my opinion is worth, I suspect it was hot reading.

Back to the initial post. A nice introduction might be Richard Webster's 'Cold Reading for the Magician'.

I understand that Richard Webster regrets writing it. I doubt that's because it's a bad book (it is not), so that leaves it being so good he regrets tipping the good stuff to magicians, or it being so good that other psychics gave him a hard time for tipping the good stuff to magicians.

On the subject of learning a 'system', I think the point is that learning one has many advantages. Once you know the system, then you can get creative.

It's like 'The Karate Kid'. Mr Miyagi doesn't start teaching kick-arse karate moves. He makes Daniel paint the fence, sand the decks and wax his car. Mr Miyagi is really teaching Daniel the basics of blocking, but it's also a test of faith.

To put it another way, most of the great artists learned how to paint properly. Picasso used to be a competent draftsman, but no one was interested. He had a blue period, then hit upon cubism and became a sensation. He learned the rules, then he broke them.

I'm not saying that is the only way, just that there can be reasons for following a certain path and that using a system does not automatically imply rigidity.

Other reasons for learning systems include:

That they have a degree of plausibility attached to them due to age or even some degree of scientific backing (like graphology).

That many systems have highly effective Forer effects statements built into them.

That using a system puts an element of distance between the reader and the sitter. It's no longer some bloke pulling statements out of the air, but what the cards, runes, tea leaves 'say'.

Then again, I have never worked as a reader, so what do I know?

mark lewis wrote:How the hell am I supposed to know who the hell Stewey Griffin is? I am not psychic you know.

It's a character from a children's cartoon (American) called Family Guy (I think). I know this because my ten year old nephew watches it.

Thank you Lord Freddie for that vital piece of information. I will now be able to go about my daily business with a burden lifted from my shoulders.

With regard to Richard Webster regretting writing his books I think it is because of all the flak he got from certain magicians and mentalists rather than from psychics.

They deemed his literary output to be unethical and to be promoting false beliefs or something and he was kicked out of his magic club where he was once elected president.

He was quite upset over all the negativity and decided to concentrate on his books for the public which was far more profitable anyway and to let the magicians fend for themselves and he wasn't going to write for them any more.

Richard was given hell (still is) over his "belief" and presenting material from a strong shut-eye point of view. Too, the fact that he supported the FACT that being a Reader is a prime aspect of Mentalism; one that certain groups would like to remove from the curriculum, convincing young minds of its evil, vile nature, et al. Then again, most that have shared such opinions, as Rev. Lewis has pointed out, are mostly admitted atheist that have never done a legit reading (let alone made a living doing Readings) in their life. They are little other than over-educated (book taught) arm-chair experts vs. someone that can speak factually on things based on long term experience.

I do know as fact, and it is a little something Webster, Strivings and many others have pointed out, is for some reason those that learn how to use a legit system and follow the rules of that system vs. all the psychological horse pucky these experts talk about... well, they tend to be credited with far more accurate Readings and frequently have testimony about information conveyed that made no sense to them and yet all the sense in the world to the sitter... in other words, we're talking about some real spine chilling moments. We don't hear much about such things due to the assholiness of "magicians" in general but more specifically, the cynical and "skeptical" sorts... the very people that ran many early founding members of the Psychic Entertainer's Association off (though they retained a rapscallion that ran more cons and flim-flams than Mark & I put together... including the sell of the same food & coffee stained, poorly typed manuscript (the last copy... one more time) at outrageous prices to the magic buffs.)

Magicians on the whole, haven't a clue as to how much information and technique they've screwed themselves out of having access to because of their expressed prejudices in this manner. It is also why most that do work as a Reader and performer avoid magicians, they simply haven't the desire to put themselves through the constant harassment.

I am a very odd sort of psychic. I like harassment. I find it relieves boredom.

Mind you I am not sure that psychic readings have much to do with mentalism or the entertainment field anyway. It is a very different business.

I had lunch with Richard Webster once and took him to a magic shop afterwards. I introduced him to the owner of the shop. Later the owner said to me, "You and he are in an awful business"

I must say that it is a terrible thing to be so unloved.

Thanks for explaining that, Mark and Craig.

I hadn't realised that it was that book that led to the problems with the PEA and Richard's decision not to write anything more aimed for fellow performers. I got the impression (not of the psychic kind) that he'd been treated shabbily over something.

Although Richard may have had problems with the PEA ( I can't say for certain) I was more alluding to the problems he had with his local magic club.
I know he also had a lot of negativity from other sources. I thrive on people getting upset. He doesn't. So he made a decision that he wasn't going to waste his time on doing publications for magicians any more. In my view we are all the losers.

Thanks for the further information, Mark.

I assumed it was the PEA, because in one of Richard's books ('Psychic Business'? - I can't quite face digging it out right now) he says that he decided to stop writing books for magicians after an incident with the PEA, especially as no one stood up to support him.

It might have been more than one thing, of course.

I entirely agree with you that the magic fraternity lost out, but I admire him for taking a stand (and for writing some excellent books before he withdrew from that side of things)

...and i love his book "greetings from beijing" too!

you can get some of his work on dvd from steven's magic emporium y'know...