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Postby Michael Jay » Oct 28th, '07, 17:15



bananafish wrote:
Lord Freddie wrote:I think we all know what pompous prat is the one who can't stand magicians playing in his sandpit. Best not to play to his rules. He already thinks he knows all there is.

Lord Freddie - that seemed unprovoked and rude to me. Please behave yourself and try and refrain from making snide comments.


But it's true, though, isn't it? I mean, if we are completely honest about this, it's true. And I think it's about time someone brings it up.

What I don't understand is that one member is snide and it is left alone, but Lord Freddie is snide and he's reprimanded. I don't understand.

Mike.

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Postby bananafish » Oct 28th, '07, 17:55

Michael Jay wrote:But it's true, though, isn't it? I mean, if we are completely honest about this, it's true. And I think it's about time someone brings it up.

What I don't understand is that one member is snide and it is left alone, but Lord Freddie is snide and he's reprimanded. I don't understand.
Frankly I don't care if it is true or not.

I do care that it is a rude thing to say and has no place being said here at talk magic.

As for singling out Lord Freddie. I do believe it wasn't long ago that I was reprimanding someone else, so I disagree that I am singling anyone one person out.

To be honest we have let far to many of these discussions here turn into personal arguements. I think it;s about time we tried to stop it.

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Postby Miles More Magic » Oct 28th, '07, 18:22

bananafish wrote:[
To be honest we have let far to many of these discussions here turn into personal arguements. I think it;s about time we tried to stop it.


Which is the point of this thread.

I started out in magic not knowing which direction I wanted to take. I tried different things, until I found that I enjoyed doing childrens magic and enjoy the reactions they give to that magic. I do practise some close up and cards, but will never be at the stage where I would expect to be paid for it. At Blackpool, I went to a lecture and bought some things afterwards, as I knew that I could use them in another way for a childrens show. It seems as if I was wrong, as this means I watched a lecture for magicians that perform for adults, so I have no ethics about other genres of magic. I have to act surprised etc during my show. Is that wrong as I am a childrens entertainer rather than an actor.
If someone asks about doing a mentalism routine with a racoon puppet during a childrens show, I would expect they would be advised against it. No problems with that. TM is here for that advice.
Being told that you aren't allowed even to study more than one genre of magic is out of order though. Some things wont mix, as they wont be suitable for either that routine, the atmosphere, or the audience. Would magicians have thought about close up routines in relation to children, even 20 years ago? Now, people are asking the question more, whether for restuarant work, for an impromptu performance when only 2 or 3 children turn up for a party, when you have got a show for 20 children. Does this make you bad ethicaly to magic, or a better performer, with a better understanding?

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Postby joecarr14 » Oct 28th, '07, 18:31

although segregation may stop some of these petty arguements... :)

but i personally have no problem with have a seperate mentalism section...

bah humbug...
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Postby IAIN » Oct 28th, '07, 19:02

i feel a song coming on...

"Like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning,
On an ever spinning wheel
As the images unwind
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind"

use what you need to express what you want...cards, fingers, matchsticks, coins, saliva, envelopes...doesn't matter...

blue eyed/brown eyed experiments explains it all...

IAIN
 

Postby Lord Freddie » Oct 28th, '07, 19:06

You get some musicians that play in different kinds of bands with different styles.
Surely people can do the same. The snobbish attitude of certain people is what is getting backs up, the 'I know better than you despite having no evidence to back up my claims' type posts.

I think it's possible for people to perform mentalism and magic but not in the same show. Many entertainers have kids shows, adult ones etc (including myself) and they are aimed at different audiences.

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"You're like Yoda ..... you'd sell out to a Vodaphone advert if the money was right."
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Postby Totally Mental » Oct 28th, '07, 20:12

It seems to me that there already is a "magicians only" area.

There are the public forums, where any member can comment and read.
There is the Mentalist Forums, which is restricted to those who have shown an interest in mentalism and a certain amount of knowledge.
Then there is the other restricted area, which seems to be related to magicians stuff (I don't know, I don't have a key to the door :lol: )

To be honest I don't see what all the fuss about.

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Postby DrTodd » Oct 28th, '07, 20:58

Totally Mental wrote:It seems to me that there already is a "magicians only" area.

There are the public forums, where any member can comment and read.
There is the Mentalist Forums, which is restricted to those who have shown an interest in mentalism and a certain amount of knowledge.
Then there is the other restricted area, which seems to be related to magicians stuff (I don't know, I don't have a key to the door :lol: )

To be honest I don't see what all the fuss about.


Gotta agree with you there! Mix, match, grow, learn...have fun...

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Postby Miles More Magic » Oct 28th, '07, 21:29

[quote="DrTodd

Gotta agree with you there! Mix, match, grow, learn...have fun...[/quote]

That may be ok for mentalists, but us third grade citizens who want to learn magic aren't supposed to do any of those, as it wouldn't be right. :wink:

So far the people who practise mentalism seem to make up about half of the posters. In all of this, there is only one reply, which doesn't feel that mentalism is part of magic, rather than magic being beneath it.

I have been playing Devils advocate, but felt it was clear from my posts. I wanted to find the thoughts of mentalists, rather than being told what you thought, by somebody else. Your replies have not been whaty I might have expected, after reading other threads. There is still the question for Criag, which I hope he will answer when he is able.

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Postby scott priest » Oct 28th, '07, 23:29

I'm new to this forum, but nonetheless here are my two cents. I started in magic, and enjoyed it immensely but found that mentalism is more reflective of my persona. As a result, magic has been put to the side as mentalism has its own methods and studies. But, we can learn something from one another. I do see why there is a mentalist only section. Most of the general posts are magic, cards, sleight related and to me that isnt the same. Not better, nor worse- but not the same.

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Postby DrTodd » Oct 28th, '07, 23:30

Well...I have spent over thirty years doing magic...in fact after our mentalism meeting yesterday, I did a handy little coins across in the pub for a colleague :)

As for TM and other forums...mature posts, intellectual curiousity, and contribution to discussion opens many doors...I would be happy to discuss the next steps with you.

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Postby scott priest » Oct 28th, '07, 23:30

Duplicate post removed. Darel, Dr. Todd is one of the few, rare individuals who have wisdom and experience, and will genuinely help. I have nothing but the highest respect for him. I now return you to your regularly scheduled posting.

Last edited by scott priest on Oct 28th, '07, 23:52, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby DrTodd » Oct 28th, '07, 23:31

DrTodd wrote:Well...I have spent over thirty years doing magic...in fact after our mentalism meeting yesterday, I did a handy little coins across in the pub for a colleague :)

As for TM and other forums...mature posts, intellectual curiousity, and contribution to discussion opens many doors...I would be happy to discuss the next steps with you.


That was for Darel...as Scott and I are already well acquainted..

Cheers

Todd

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Postby Tomo » Oct 28th, '07, 23:39

DrTodd wrote:Gotta agree with you there! Mix, match, grow, learn...have fun...

Indeed. Cross pollination of ideas is a good and creative thing. It avoids stagnation and a static or even shrinking "gene pool".

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Postby Miles More Magic » Oct 28th, '07, 23:54

DrTodd,
It sounds as if your reply was tongue in cheek or a dig, but I take it as a fair reaction to my posts. Your offer is just what some people have been wanting to be able to do. It is sad that once magic and mentalism are mentioned in one post, let alone thread, the last thing that can happen is for an intelligent discussion to happen. Instead, magicians are told to butt out of something they are not welcome to be involved with.
I am pleasantly surprised by the overall feeling that we are all part of the same magic "family" and that most people find no problems with people wanting to learn other things.
Maybe it is just that what was right 30 or 40 years ago, may need to be updated now, rather than keep with old "rules." After all, isn't it better to come up with our own ideas and routines? Some may be rubbish, but this is when we can ask advice, getting help, rather than being told we are morons for trying something for ourselves.

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