Open Mentalism Section

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Create a second Mentalism Section for Discussion of Mentalism Topics which is available to all members intrested in

Poll ended at May 9th, '08, 08:55

I think magic and mentalism aren't that different to justify a new section, we have enough sections.
I like the idea of having an open mentalism section
I don't know, I am not concernerd with mentalism at all
I think it would be a a benefit for sure to open a new section openly available
I oppose the idea of having an openly available mentalism forum
Total votes : 34

Open Mentalism Section

Postby TakWah » Feb 9th, '08, 08:55

There could be an mentalism section which was not restricted, to give people the possibitly to exchange knowledge in that particular field, without the need to play hide and seek in the numerous other sections. Even there is a mentalism area allready. I think a second open one for all beginners or not yet trusted people, would be an idea.

Speaking for me, I am not much into magic tricks, other than the part of learning some sleights that can be used into mentalism routines, magical principles are allways intresting to apply into other fields such as mentalism, but I think that mentalism differs enough from the normal art of conjuring magic illusions, that it might be of intrest, at least to me to have a point of gathering in this forum, for the majority of people, that aren't too much in the magic illusion act.


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Postby DrTodd » Feb 9th, '08, 09:06

Disagree and voted as such. This is an old chestnut that has been done to death when the section was first set up.

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Postby AndyRegs » Feb 9th, '08, 11:05

Especially since I find it a bit cheeky for a first post (and so no introduction) to ask for a new section.

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Postby Totally Mental » Feb 9th, '08, 11:21

I disagree also - especially as a lot of the posts in the mentalist area provides some sort of exposure.

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Postby themagicwand » Feb 9th, '08, 11:46

Disagree. Let's keep our art as safe as possible.

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Postby nikmagick » Feb 9th, '08, 12:18

Totally Mental wrote:I disagree also - especially as a lot of the posts in the mentalist area provides some sort of exposure.

I'm the same, for the very same reason.

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Postby Noodlesoup » Feb 9th, '08, 15:24

No chance. Sorry.

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Postby Craig Browning » Feb 9th, '08, 20:31

I've deliberately not voted in that I do not see that "grey" area that best fits my position.

When I first brought in the idea of an "exclusive" mentalism section I only intended it to be an area that allows for discussion on that topic, not some kind of "elitist" category (as some have referred to it) that is of exclusive membership. My goal as it were, was to have an area that was topic specific and little other, making it easier for visitors to find a category that covered the things they were interested in... in this case "Mentalism" but then other forums have similar breakdowns for Cards, Close-up, Coins, Bizarre, Street Magic, etc. it's just a category -- a specialty field of study.

No, I do not believe that just everyone should be involved; if you have little to no knowledge on the topic why do you want to be there?

I'm not known for posting on threads about card magic or street magic or any of that other stuff. My posts are very restricted for the most part, catering to the two chief fields I am adept at; Grand Stage, which I did for over 25 years and Mentalism/Bizarre Magick which has consumed most of my life the past 18 or so years (the latter being very much common to my former incarnation as an Illusionist).

I do find it humorous and even a tad bit childish, the amount of whining done on this topic within these forums... I mean TM in particular, in that you do not see such contempt expressed elsewhere where categories for this and that type of magic are typical. I almost feel as if it is but a small handful of malcontents simply wanting to stir a particular pot more than it being a justified issue. Individuals who do not comprehend the value of secrecy and keeping the various fields of magic neatly divided for the sake of quality within that aspect of the art vs. the potpourri element we've seen unfolding over this past decade; MAGICIANS justifying ad infinitum, their right to do "whatever tricks" they want and "how" they want, lending little to no regard to the more subtle keys and psychological paradigms that distinguish one form of presentation from the other, let alone how an improper course of presentation by one person hurts the rest.

About a decade ago a single but clever piece was introduced on a TV spot; a demonstration of divination, if you would. A knife blade set beneath a paper cup, mixed, etc. you all know the bit... it was dynamite! It built suspense and it worked well FOR A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

Today it is such a replicated, ripped-off and cheap'ned TRICK that is being done by MAGICIANS everywhere, that it no longer holds any real value to the serious Mentalist. Just like MENTAL EPIC or the MOAB, it has become lost to us because of the selfishness of the magic buff who believe that just because he can afford it, he/she should be allowed to do it as they want... but a white faced clown doing MOAB in a kiddie birthday party show is seen only as "Wrong" by those dedicated to Mentalism as an art form in and of itself, NOT the magic buffs that hold to this mode of thought... sadly, the clown thing really happened by a former VP of a major Magic society here in the states.

There has existed a Rift between the Magician & the Mentalist for most of the past century in that the one wants to see it all as being "just tricks" while the other understands the value of presenting it under a format that creates realism and, as the old timers say, "Invokes belief". This is something Stephan Minch and many others address time and again, referring to the refusal to work that angle as "Magician's Guilt" and how it proves, time and again, as the downfall to those that just dabble in this side of the craft... the mentalist being willing to do whatever he/she must do for the sake of creating the state of things miraculous and holding to the only illusion that matters -- their image as a miracle worker, not so much the showman.

I can't possibly delve into the the over-all depths that this topic can meander into, but leave it to say that it is always wiser to let those who specialize in one given field to have their "safe" areas; a place where challenge is less common as the result of misunderstanding... something that is very common place in this forum and most forums in which magic and mentalism get mixed in together; Magicians simply do not understand why there is a difference. I'm not saying this to be elitist or to put people down or to say that one is better than the other; it is merely a point in fact. The two arts are KINDRED but not one in the same; Ventriloquism, Juggling, Knife Throwing, Rope Spinning... all of these are kindred art forms as well in that they all involve manipulative skill as well as deception elements but they are not one in the same thing as Magic. Respect those differences and understand how the nuance of the one differs and requires a different course of approach, that's all.

I try my best to practice what I preach, which goes back to why I don't share very often in threads that have little to nothing to do with my primary fields of study. If we all did this then I don't think we'd have many problems with a more open sense of discussion. It is however, when people loose their perspective and try to tell a veteran of a given field that he/she don't know what they are talking about or that they are con-artist for doing things a certain way, etc. This is where we have "issues" and they exist purely as the result of someone not being read sufficiently on, in this instance MENTALISM and its practice through the ages vs. trickery and showmanship... again, things are related but not one in the same.

Hope I've helped somehow in clarifying but as I said, not enough room for spelling things out, nor enough time. :wink:

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Postby Galgael » Feb 9th, '08, 22:24

I am not allowed in that section yet as I am such a noob and have voted no. I want it to be worth getting into.

It is that simple.

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Postby Lady of Mystery » Feb 11th, '08, 10:55

I don't really see the need, I think the open area as it is provides a good area to talk about any type of magic.

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Postby TakWah » Feb 11th, '08, 14:21

I am sorry for my english, I didn't ment to open the existing one, I just ment to categorize things for browsing. My title should have been different, I am sorry for that. But I especially thank for all the interest, and replies, in my post. Especially Craig Browning, who set some things clear, I didn't thought properly about before.

I can see now that I had no point, I didn't thought about the fact that many mentalism things have some kind of exposure in it.

I just ment it more of a category, which as I see now, makes no sense also, because of that exposure relationship. :shock:

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Postby IAIN » Feb 12th, '08, 11:03

i voted no too...

just because i can!

not really - with mentalism, i think it should be more guarded, just cos i love it too much to want to share it with people who may not want to give it the respect it rather than bother the mods to review everyone individually and constantly, i think it's fair that we all have to "prove ourselves" on the open sections first...

it would be like me just rolling on up to the magic circle, pushing past ali bongo and saying "oy you, get me a biscuit and a cup of coffee NOW!"

so, for those who are genuinely interested and have studied, then im sure they'll be happy to prove themselves a little (we all did who are currently in the hidden area) and hopefully for those that just want to know how everything is done so they can show off will get bored and not hang around!

over at the magic cafe, all you need is 50 posts to get into the so called secret area...go figure!


Postby TakWah » Feb 12th, '08, 12:28

It's not about the hidden section, it's about a way to categorize the review, support and other sections into topics. But as I don't care for TM(Trad.M not Talk M.) much, I didn't suggested a topic sepration for that. I suggested this to make things easier to browse, without going over the search function everytime, because there is mentalism related discussion and in the sections allready, and of the non exposive kind.

I was not about to open that hidden area, that is a misunderstanding.

My fault due to my grammar.

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