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Farlsy I think Greedo was talking about people who go out into the streets and film themselves performing for passers by. I don't think he meant the practice of filming yourself purely for self-criticism, which is of course a good idea.

I was indeed.

I agree that using video to improve your magic is a great idea. I do it myself.
It is the "I'm going out on the street with a video camera and am going to destroy some minds with my new ellusionist effect and then post it online" I object to.

what's even worse are those little urchins who learn an effect then expose it on you tube. What I find more objectionable than the exposure is the fact they show you on the duvet in their bedroom. Call me a snob but at least have the common decency to use a table when you are exposing someone elses effect.

Trez wrote:
Magicians who only ever do the same 10 tricks. Variety is the spice of life

That's me out then.

Magicians that don't respect other magicians.

Everyone has to start somewhere but a lot of the more expereinced magicians fail to remember that they too were once beginners. Expereince doesn't mean that you have to look down your nose at someone. I agree with some of what Marvi said - some people take things all too seriously and often there isn't a need too.

There's too much one-up-manship between magicians.

Just because you may not like something that a performer does, it doesn't mean that everyone else watching also won't watch it. You may well be in a minority of one.

All that you need to remember is that good people are remembered, not so good people aren't. Hopefully the not so good people will be encouraged to do better, instead of being chastised for it.

Tomo wrote:Anyone who defines the meaning of a choice before it's made. It puts the spec on the defensive and makes them want to mess things up for the performer.

Tomo could you expand on this please?
Do you mean if you make it a really big deal which card they pick out of a fan (to use a basic example), they will start going for the end cards or changing their minds all the time?

Must remember not to perform in front of any of you.

Trez wrote:
Magicians who only ever do the same 10 tricks. Variety is the spice of life

Leaves me out too and most of the people I know who make a living out of performing.

Trez wrote:Im pretty sure that Derren Brown gets permission to use everything that they film. If someone says "No, you made me look like a muppet" then it won't make it to the final broadcast.
In all of the Trick or Treat stuff, he's always saying "You don't have to do this if you don't want to", so he's not forcing anyone into a situation where they'd be made to feel really uncomfortable or stupid
Live shows might be a different matter mind. Never actually been one, so don't know if theres a "I don't want to be picked on" option

He doesn't specifically say "If you don't want to come on stage, don't worry, just pass it to the person next to you", but I doubt he's gonna pull you up if you do that

From what is said in Tricks of the mind, he's not the type who's gonna pick on a volunteer and make them look stupid

Magicians who use sucker tricks. There's no faster way of making a spectator turn against you.

Farlsborough wrote:Not a performance issue, but "bad magician behaviour": common responses of magicians when they are on the receiving end, eg. at a wedding.

If you really want to make yourself known, buy the guy a drink and if he has a quiet moment, congratulate him on his (or her) efforts and have a friendly chat about the price of flash paper. But don't make it clear to the entire table that you know how to do what he just did, and don't make cryptic comments about sleights in front of lay people.

Agreed! I think a lot of magicians probably make terrible spectators, after all magicians were spectators who so wanted to know the 'how' that they become magicians themselves. This seems to give rise to the common problem of neglecting the presentation in the performance, as new magicians are too obsessed with how it is done. It seems that it is only through multiple performances that the truth of the performance is realised.

I also partly agree with the thing to do with magicians who are cheesy. While I am sure that some performances are very cheesy intentionally and are very good and funny with it, the unintentional cheesy stuff really annoys me. To me it just shows that the performer is ignoring the audience's reaction to his crappy cheesiness and is oblivious to how he comes across.

This leads onto the similar point that sometimes magicians rely too much on the effect itself. I think it's good to adapt performances and welcome the input from your audience rather that trying to shut them up every time they say something. I think the performer should just go with whatever is entertaining for a moment at least, rather than sort of going "yeah whatever, look at this now..." The audience won't forget that you were showing them something and they will get back to the trick if they really want to see it.

Why can't magicians be patient?

Someone saying he will perform magic and ending up performing XCM.

Sorry, wasnt' clear on what I meant. I meant the magicians who don't try and improve or expand their repertoire.
Certainly its much better to have your 10 tricks which you can do well, than 30 you can do badly. Would say that if you're still doing the same 10 tricks that you were doing 2 years ago that you might want to try something new

dat8962 wrote:Magicians that don't respect other magicians.

Everyone has to start somewhere but a lot of the more expereinced magicians fail to remember that they too were once beginners. Expereince doesn't mean that you have to look down your nose at someone. I agree with some of what Marvi said - some people take things all too seriously and often there isn't a need too.

There's too much one-up-manship between magicians.

Just because you may not like something that a performer does, it doesn't mean that everyone else watching also won't watch it. You may well be in a minority of one.

All that you need to remember is that good people are remembered, not so good people aren't. Hopefully the not so good people will be encouraged to do better, instead of being chastised for it.

definitely! this one is a big peeve of mine, and it carries over to Farlsboroughs post and Mahoney. many if not most magicians, particularly the younger and less experienced or intermediate level ones, seem to want to compete with everyone else - and we all know those who get frustrated when someone shows them something they dont know, or in the case ive had in other forums, make a song and dance about working out a trick, or knowing how its done. (i dont necessarily agree its experienced magicians that go for the one-upmanship but those whove found out a lot of effects and think, purely due to technical reasons, or that they know the workings of every sleight that they are more experienced. experience and knowledge are two entirely different things.)

its bad enough from the lay person, but when fellow magicians do its just plain bad form! unless you do the trick yourself, or use a similar working, noone cares if you know how its done, especially the person performing the trick. nor should you if you respect the art.

im sure we all know or have some idea of how loads of effects are done, but those who truly love magic, simply cast it from their minds, not bother to look for it, or at the very least keep their gob shut and smile haha

ive done tricks to magicians, and although their not like the know-all heckler, they sometimes give you a certain look, as if their judging the tricks, not your performance. thats how you tell the men from the boys... the man will appreciate and give you advice on your presentation, or congratulate you. the boys only ever think of the secret. thats how they measure their experience and 'expertise'. indeed the experienced magician would be able to give you this help even if they have no idea how you did the trick.

then again could just be me. i still watch others to be amazed just like any other spectator, not to figure it out to look clever or pick holes in their tricks. thats not why you perform to others, nor is it why they perform to you.

we magicians really can be.... well i wont say it but were all thinking it

think ill start a thread on this actually cos id love to hear others views

joel