talkmagic.co.uk

Someone ages ago mentioned that they'd seen Fay Presto doing restaurant work and she produced a silk for one effect. A know-it-all shouted that he knew how it was going to be done because she was using a TT, he'd seen it on YouTube or wikki. She just replied that she didn't use that method, it was out of date and everybody knew about it now. Then she proceeded to use a TT anyway and nobody twigged!

Well done to her.

Perhaps as performers, this availability of information will encourage you all to rework your performances and redesign the presentation of your effects so that they look different, despite being the same.

As well as that, if it doesnt have a name, they'll have trouble looking it up.



Though of course, its not nice for it to be plastered all over the net - not for the veteran practitioners on here, nor for the newcomers like me who could have secrets exposed before they even get a chance to keep them secret.

I'd say that the project is run by nerds (I'm kind of nerdish myself, so that's not meant as a great insult), and nerds love knowing how stuff works. I can't see their policy changing, which is a shame.

Bearing in mind that there are plenty of exposure sites run by magicians (who should know better), it's pretty hard to explain to other people what the problem is.

How many magicians (who should know better) think that the secret of magic is the secrets of magic?

Then again, in spite of what some say, if a person does know (or even suspect) how you do something, it takes a lot of the shine off the magic.

As has already been said, the best defence is to make sure the audience has little to go on if they did search for an effect. Also, never name the trick, and try not to perform it straight out of the book, DVD or box.

Mandrake wrote:Someone ages ago mentioned that they'd seen Fay Presto doing restaurant work and she produced a silk for one effect. A know-it-all shouted that he knew how it was going to be done because she was using a TT, he'd seen it on YouTube or wikki. She just replied that she didn't use that method, it was out of date and everybody knew about it now. Then she proceeded to use a TT anyway and nobody twigged!

Ha ha! Reminds me of the bit near the beginning of Wonder Words. When about to do a card trick, Kenton would say, "I know everybody thinks magicians palm cards." Everybody automatically starts watching for palming, so that trick doesn't involve anything remotely similar.

Best of all, this "proves" psychologically that he never uses palming. So he's free to use it in later tricks without anyone becoming suspicious.

NOTE: I reckon the p-word is common enough in even the most basic kids' magic books that it doesn't need to be asterisked out. If the mods think otherwise, feel free to bleep me.

I am getting repetitive in saying this, but I feel it necessary. Those who search for easy ways out are going to find just that- EASY ways out. This being said, those who find these ways are not looking to discover for themselves or practice at all. In turn they will mess up the performance every time, eventually give up on trying (because that is what they are like) and we won't have to hear from them again.

Now of course, it is always bright to have an alternate way of completing a trick so that if someone does call you out you can fool them and save your behind at the same time.

Elemental

Elemental wrote:Now of course, it is always bright to have an alternate way of completing a trick so that if someone does call you out you can fool them and save your behind at the same time.

Not always possible. Some smart-alec who knew how one-ahead worked called me on it, and there wasn't a lot I could do (he guessed correctly how it was done). If you know the secret, you'll know there's only one way of doing OA

You can't blame the people who want to know the secrets. It's hard to balance between retaining the charm and satisfying your curiosity.
I always enjoyed that masked magician guy who revealed how big magic tricks are done (who was he? I heard at the end he revealed his identity too) but now I understand that he was damaging the trade and destroying the magic. Interestingly though, I don't remember a single one.
Penn & Teller were classy though. I vividly remember the one where Teller was cut up inside a box and then they repeated it with glass boxes and showed you him moving around under the stage to appear in different parts of the box which had been separated.

I remember when I was younger, someone (not a magician) came up to show me and a friend a card trick and part way through I blurted out how the trick worked as I'd seen it before. Then I instantly felt like a right plod. What was the point? What had I achieved?
At least I learned my lesson though. Now if I see a card trick that I know, I just smile knowingly. Having said that, these are very basic card tricks so there's little to be so smug about. Now im on the path to learning some real impressive stuff.

MagicBell wrote:You can't blame the people who want to know the secrets. It's hard to balance between retaining the charm and satisfying your curiosity.

I have a lot of sympathy for that attitude. I get the feeling that a lot of the magicians (or so called magicians) who get upset at the idea of laypeople being able to look up 'secrets' are actually just having a tantrum because they can't control a crowd very well and they aren't very good.

I can't remember who said it, but someone on this forum said a while ago (and I'm paraphrasing from memory) "The best way to make sure no smart alec calls you on a DL is to perform the move correctly". Now there's some good advice.

For instance, I know how Dan Buck performs his vanish of the four Queens, but that doesn't mean it isn't still wonderful to watch.

Exposure isn't a major problem for me, because I know that a school child clumsily performing an ACR and everyone realising how it's done isn't going to detract from an immaculate ACR - because it won't even slightly resemble it, even with exactly the same plot.

I would have to definatly echo the theme that is being said here of "If you perform right, people wont know".
Aside from that, how many laypeople have seen a similar magic act enough times to think they will go home and learn the "secrets" of said trick/effects purely to catch out another magician for the benefits of a cheap laugh?
It seems a hell of a lot of research, just to annoy someone who is MAYBE going to perform a similar trick to the one he saw at a previous wedding/dinner/show etc. I unfortunatly know a few people who take great pleasure in putting people down (its a Yorkshire thing I think!!) but none who would dedicate research to an off chance.
Just a thought!

If anyone wants to do something about Wikipedia I posted a topic on TM entitled "Stopping Exposure on Wikipedia-the Method" it's in the Miscellaneous section. I talked about a few methods of stoping Wkipedia's blatent exposure. Check out the article or PM for more info.

Alot of people commented on if you don't know the name of the trick you can't find the exposure on the internet. This may be true for most coin, card, rope, and a few other tricks, but, a trick like the linking rings is pretty easy to google and find an explanation to.

What I mean is that tricks using specific apparatus are easy to find on google. Also, some people suggested that just because a spec knows a sleight they won't nessacerily catch you. I'm not too worried about them knowing a sleight beforehand, it's more them googling it afterwards that worries me.

how many laypeople have seen a similar magic act enough times to think they will go home and learn the "secrets" of said trick/effects purely to catch out another magician for the benefits of a cheap laugh?

Most people want to know the secret because they're baffled and want to satisfy their curiousity. They would not look it up in hopes of seeing it again and exposing that magician. Not most people anyways...