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Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to contradict anyone here, just getting a bit of clarity and to take the discussion out of the Review thread of another book.

Mark Lewis recommended the book Showmanship and Presentation by Edward Maurice. So I looked it up and it was written in 1946.

Now, I'd like to ask if presentation technique is as timeless as some of the sleights and mentalism principles we know and love? Is that which was relevant then still relevant now? May I take this opportunity to remind you I'm not being accusative. I'm naive in context and am trying to learn more about presentation at an entertainer level, rather than magical one.

I am very interested in learning about theory and presentation and am presently reading Strong Magic (which is wonderful) and have already read Our Magic. I do own a copy of Magic and Showmanship, but have not dipped into it yet. I've also got The Secrets of Alkazar, and that's ace! There is that bit in Expert Card Technique too. Oh, and Absolute Magic and Magic in Theory.

I have also been recommended:

Win the Crowd by Steve Cohen
Exploring Magical Presentations by Eugene Burger (DVD)
Scripting Magic by Pete McCabe
The Principles of Magic by Richard Osterlind
Mastering the Art of Magic by Eugene Burger
Magic and Meaning by Eugene Burger
The Books of Wonder
The Magic of Michael Ammar
Beyond Secrets by Jay Sankey
True and False: Heresy and Common Sense for the Actor by David Mamet

And so now, once again, I am faced with a whopping list of books and don't know where to turn.

I was speaking to seige about mentalism the other day and he was saying how one book might be good for stage and another might be good for table, etc. I think the same applies here, but in other senses too.

Personally, I've got at least four good sections on misdirection and an all you can eat buffet on enhancing presentation, especially with Strong Magic. What I'm looking for are books that address such questions as:

I get stage fright, even if there's not a stage. It's nothing to do with practice, and I can't SWISH it away. How to I learn to quell or channel that adrenaline so my wedding ring doesn't cut the circulation off to my finger and my hands don't clam up so much that I glue myself to the cards.

I'm interested in building routines, but not only the linkage of tricks but adding more to it. Are there general principals in keeping groups, large and small, entertained?

I'm interested in understanding the different presentation techniques associated with table work, walking work, group, stage and screen. Also about repeat audiences and one offs. That would be from both a magic routine and entertainer perspective.

I'm a brilliant technical magician, but I'm actually a bit of a nerd, and would like to improve my look and feel. Are there some general principals for making myself more of an entertaining character?

(the last one's no actually true, on either count )

And so I ask, which of the above books, or others you may know, apply to the above questions and others which are not particularly "theory of magic" or "making magic more magical"?

Why am I asking? Well, it's because I'm really quite sick of buying expensive books of which 5% is actually useful because the rest is all covered in other books I already own. If I hear one more time that "you don't present the same trick twice unless you have two methods" or that "the spectator looks where you're looking", I'll go up the wall.

I'm trying to take the collective book (and other media) knowledge here and turn it into some form of categorised, progressive and non-wasteful learning tree so that if someone does have a question about presentation, they can more easily find the book which addresses their questions. For instance, I was recommended Banacheck PSI for mentalism, but nobody mentioned whether or not it was good for stage or not (I know the answer now).

As an exercise, think of all the books you've ever bought and try to think to yourself "if I knew about of these books in advance, I'd have bought only these ones in this order". But no, please don't post your fave list of early card books in this thread. Oh, and no going off topic and no ranting and arguing. OK?

Oh dear! You have a little too much. I think I had better thin it down a trifle for you.

The first question I had better ask is what kind of a magician are you? A stage magician, a cabaret magician, a restaurant magician, a close up magician or what?

The only clue I have is that you say you are a "brilliant technical magician". That seems to imply that you are a close up magician although I don't know for sure. Once that is clarified I think I can advise you better.

As for the Edward Maurice book it is a trifle out of date but a lot of the advice still stands. Or at least some of it. At any rate anything is better than that horrendous Nelms book.

Our Magic is even more out of date than Edward Maurice but some of the insights are utterly brilliant and stand up now as well as it did then.

The bit at the back of Expert Card Technique was also written in the late forties. I think virtually all of it stands up today as well as it did.

For mentalism I think the Corinda step on patter and presentation is as good as any for advice. And don't overlook the Maurice Fogel interview in the Book Test step.

Thanks Mark

I do apologise for the long post, it's late here and I tend to rant on a bit. I posed the questions as an illustration of how varied the world of presentation seems from this angle.

I am a budding amateur whose practice outweighs his performance. I'm moving from groups of friends to groups of strangers in a casual way and working up to hopefully some events or table work. I was asked once to present a stage show, but refused based on my lack of prior presentation experience.

My magic is mostly close up with some individual and group mentalism, but I'm only dabbling presently. It's harder to practice that sort of thing. I need more strangers. I am not a technically brilliant magician, but I am skilled enough to do the working for the tricks I use.

As Strong Magic gave me insights into presentation of magic in more ways and more depth than I had considered, I am looking for those insights in scripting/routining and "stage" craft from an entertainment perspective. Yes, I know these may be considered two different topics, and that's why I thought maybe two books would help. As you can see, I've got tons on the list of recommendations and it's hard to know where to go next.

I'm actually happy with my persona, style, personality and ability to engage people in general. I'm just looking for more information on presentation and working with people. I would imagine a book aimed at or suitable for all manner of performers might be useful.

When I said you had "too much" I was not referring to the length of your post more to the number of books you felt you had to read.

I think all you need to read for the moment is Strong Magic. I agree with virtually everything in it except for the advice on hecklers. And also read the bit at the back in Expert Card Technique.

You really don't need much else. Throw all the other stuff away otherwise you will go nuts.

When you go on stage then you can read more. For now however if you are just doing close up work then the above is all you need.

Coincidentally I am typing in to the computer my own theories on presentation as we speak. Thirty years ago I started to write a book on card tricks for beginners and I found part of the uncompleted typewritten manuscript the other day. Chapter two is on showmanship and presentation. One day that will see print. The advice in it should be useful too.

I'll continue my way through Strong Magic, it's an excellent read. I'll combat my nerves with confidence from good results and work from there. Thanks for your advice and do let me know if you need a proof reader.

read as much as you can on the topic of presentation. please dont just read books aimed at the magician though. there are many more books published for actors.
and from each book, your bound to pick up something.

you did ask...

Mark Lewis recommended the book Showmanship and Presentation by Edward Maurice. So I looked it up and it was written in 1946.

Now, I'd like to ask if presentation technique is as timeless as some of the sleights and mentalism principles we know and love?

my take on this is..

Man evolves over millions of years, not 60. We still respond to the same things we did, all those years ago.

take the advice given on how to present, those being the foundations of a theatrical presentation, and apply the top coat, that is your plot, and patter.

daleshrimpton wrote:read as much as you can on the topic of presentation. please dont just read books aimed at the magician though. there are many more books published for actors.

Care to recommend any, with some context for each?

daleshrimpton wrote:and from each book, your bound to pick up something.

This is true, and if I had a big pot of money to buy all the books and a huge raft of time to read them all in, I'd agree. But since both time and money are limited and I hate reading the same thing over and over again, I'm going to avoid books which have are 95% the same as another book I already have.

Like RRTCM for cards, Bobo for coins, Strong Magic for theory, Corinda for mentalism and McGill for hypnosis, which are the "must reads" in this context and how do they apply?

over the years, ive found that books that deal with producing pantomime, ( thats english panto for the non u.k readers, not MIME) offer a great deal of good solid advice , which can be applied to the performance of magic.

Although many of the books recommended here can help you think about your performances and give you techniques to help temper your stage fright there is certainly no cure other than performing as much and as often as you can to strangers.
When I decided to try and do gigs I was lucky to have a few friends who run club nights and they allowed me to try walkaround magic to the gathered party revellers.
For the first few nights over the months I tended to spend half the time wandering aimlessly too nervous to approach groups of strangers and making excuses like "I dont want to break their conversation" or "they dont look the sort to enjoy magic" etc.
Over time this sort of behaviour has been reduced by me and it is fully down to time spent trying to do it.
I found for me the best cure for this sort of nervousness is the times where things have gone properly tits up and I have made a right royal numpty of myself.
I know now that no matter who I approach and perform for it cannot get any worse than I've already been through and more importantly that the "Worst case scenario" isnt as bad as what your mind thinks it is.

So, yes read books on performance as many of them are excellent and can help you think of the kind of performer you wish to be but I feel only getting out there and trying it out for real is the only way of becoming the magician you wish to be.
I presume there are many here who know how hard it is to get over your natural fear of performance but it is possible to do and much easier than you imagine once you have bitten the bullet, thought to yourself "sod it, I'm going in" and gotten out alive.

Is there room to add the suggestion that, as well as all that reading material, going out to see magicians, actors, singers etc perform live will also help? Not to copy anyone else but to just see how others go about performing and subconsciously soak up the small hints and tips which are difficult to put into words.

Well, if any actually come to Devon, I might just do that

I’d suggest that seeing magicians is less important, than seeing other forms of entertainment.
Watching bad magicians can fool you into becoming one yourself.

Even Amateur Dramatic shows can offer an insight into what to do and not to do - so they tell me !

I have written in the past on stagefright, nervousness etc; I have no idea where. I could expound on it all over again but I have no energy to do so.

For now all I have the energy to say is get a record of successful experiences behind you and eventually your fear will disappear. If your audiences haven't by that time of course.

I've searched your posts (using the search thing) for "nervous" and "stage fright" to no avail. It's a shame that such posts don't end up in central, managed places, like an book