talkmagic.co.uk

For a while i've been trying to find a book or dvd that teaches psychology (you know derren brown kinda stuff) but i can't find and anywhere does anyone have any suggestions please!!!

DanielKnox wrote:For a while i've been trying to find a book or dvd that teaches psychology (you know derren brown kinda stuff) but i can't find and anywhere does anyone have any suggestions please!!!

It's important to understand that Derren Brown doesn't really use psychology in his act other than in the traditional magic sense of misdirection, etc. However, if you're looking for psychological effects, check out Banachek's "Psychological Subtleties" volumes 1 and 2, and my own "Naked Mentalism" volumes 1 and 2.

You also need to be aware, however, that these are not sure-fire tricks. They need practice, confidence and an ability to turn a miss into a hit to get the very most out of them. Experience, in other words.

If you're interested in learning mentalism then you should get yourself a copy of 13 Steps to Mentalism, it'll give you all the basics for mind reading effects. They don't use psychology but with the right presentation you can make it look like it is. Which is what Derren is doing 99% of the time.

Deja Who?

Didn't we just have a very long thread on this very same topic a week ago?

As has been explained DERREN BROWN LIES!... but then, so do most variety performers; especially when performing.

What has not been explained is the fact that Derren started out with far less resource than you presently have access to and part of his development included actual formal classes in the various fields associated with the human mind and how it works. In other words, he didn't become "Derren Brown" the celebrity "expert" over night and it took many books and long years of study to get to where he's act; there are no "magic bullets"

The Banachek material is quite good while some of the other materials you will find out there are "questionable" when it comes to history and application. Most of the more "cutting edge" product that's out there is both, expensive and highly controlled when it comes to who gets their hands on it. This is because of two key "problems" we have in magic these days; horrid exposure/theft and the inability of the working pro to any longer retain integrity in his/her shows as the result of consumer proliferation... in other words, people will buy an effect just to learn how it's done, not as the result of respect to the art or artists around it.

There is a strange "third" reason for the "control" over secrets; sometimes the "secrets" revealed are so bloody simple and elementary that the novice simply won't get it and in the long run, they go out and bad mouth an effect because of personal ignorance, not that it was a bad piece of magic; two example come to mind -- Hole in the Head and Cellular Mitosis -- just look them up using the search function on most any forum and you will find tons of complaints, nearly all of them by people that aren't true showman but rather weekend warriors that may quote that famed line about us being "Actors playing a part" but rarely know diddly squat about practicing what they preach.

Oh! If you haven't caught on, I'm one of the main curmudgeons on this forum. I come off crass and rude in the mind of some, but my reasoning is always the same -- to steer people along the more productive course on things.

BTW... that SEARCH function I mentioned... look up the sticky thread on "Becoming a Mentalist" and you will find a treasure trove of resources that tend to get over-looked from time to time. Many however, have found it to be exceptionally useful.

Ian Rowlands The Full Facts of Cold Reading book is very good if you are into one on one magic. If you can give a person a reading in conjunction with an effect, the effect will move from magic to something far more profound. Keep the effect simple and the reading sincere and you will blow them away. If you are unfamiliar with cold reading Rowlands book can be a bit of information overload. Try Lee Earle's The Gentle Art of Cold Reading, or anything by Joe Riding, or Julian Moore's The James Bond Classic Reading or Ken de Courcy's Systematic Seer (which will have you giving readings in minutes). Tony.

The funny thing is that Derren Brown doesn't lie, he just misdirects, his famous introductory disclaimer when he first became big (but after years and years of hard work and anonymity) was "a combination of magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship"

And the fact is, all good magicians and mentalists use "a combination of magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship."

People just assume misdirection and showman ship isn't part of the psychology.

Of course if you aim is to 'be like Derren Brown' I wouldn't bother, as Derren Brown has already done it. If your interested in psychology, take a university course. If your interested in psychological trickery and nothing else, prepare to be limited greatly in what you can do.

You will have to spend a good few decades to do what he can do, and study more than psychology to do it.
It might be better to look at some of the books recommended, and not limit yourself yet, as your looking for things under false presumptions, because I'm sorry to say, there is no single book or D.V.D that can teach you what you want to know.

I know I and others here might sound like we're being rude or dismissive, but we're not. We're giving you the answer, just not one that's easy to hear or fully understand until you start learning the methods.

TonyB wrote:Ian Rowlands The Full Facts of Cold Reading book is very good if you are into one on one magic. If you can give a person a reading in conjunction with an effect, the effect will move from magic to something far more profound. Keep the effect simple and the reading sincere and you will blow them away. If you are unfamiliar with cold reading Rowlands book can be a bit of information overload. Try Lee Earle's The Gentle Art of Cold Reading, or anything by Joe Riding, or Julian Moore's The James Bond Classic Reading or Ken de Courcy's Systematic Seer (which will have you giving readings in minutes). Tony.

Never suggest the Rowland book to a novice, it's far too in-depth, biased and confusing. But at the same time, I don't believe these books lend to him the sort of "Psychological" resource the poster is seeking; Tomo's post pretty much covers the contemporary resources along those lines but should likewise include Kenton Knepper's Wonder Words series in that it deals with linguistic and semantic based nuances that aid the manipulator. Kenton offers a couple of other excellent essays along these lines as well (but my brain isn't working well enough this morning to recall the titles).

I'd also recommend Reality is Plastic even though it deals with hypnosis. In my experience the techniques used in this particular kindred science opens a very important door when it comes to literal acts of influence. Especially if one were to enroll in classes associated with Erickson Psychological techniques; though they take a while to cultivate the end results are amazing... even more so when you couple that training with courses in Criminal Psychology (Profiling) and the FACS techniques. Not only will be become a most excellent Reader at the "legit" level but you will be prepared at a most uncanny level when it comes to people control.

The above outline by the way, reveals how so much of mentalism leans on systems/sciences and arts that have no direct ties to magic itself. It is quite uncanny, the mountain of training and conditioning one can gain via formal (traditional) education. In this particular instance a young person taking the initiative to further their education along said route will have a built-in "Day Job" along side applicable skills for stage i.e. they can work as a counselor or in the Law Enforcement fields if need be, as a source of primary income... a very important thing to have given the fickleness of the entertainment demands in the general market.