talkmagic.co.uk

*Cough* Latin *Cough*

DemonMentalist wrote:

EckoZero wrote:Craig Browning recommended this to me some time ago.
I got it and loved it.

Not sure why I never posted a review though!
Or did I...?

*potters off to use the search function*


EDIT: No I didn't

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it.
I put of reviewing it for a while, kind of like to keep the good stuff to myself, then i realised that it dosn't matter too much, because it's an effect that needs a bit of practice and is more suited to the more advanced performers, and that kind of rules out the casual crowd who are looking for self working easy effects.
So thought "what's the harm", may as well share the good stuff with the people who'd appreciate it

You know that's probably why I didn't post a review.
If I recall, at the time the forum was filled with people who would get an effect like this (or Sensory Projection or PANAGRAM - two other recommendations from Mr Browning) and mash it into the ground, say "this is c*** (not the best)" without putting in the work necessary.

I always thought they were wonderful devices and as such put the time into them.
No they're not for everyone but that's fine - this one is dastardly clever and I actually had great fun learning this.
Not everyday I can say that.

The manuscript is great and yes, as Magicwand said, this is a bit of a Holy Grail of Mentalism.
And whilst the Holy Grail remains buried somewhere in Mesopotamia (or some other guff ), we'll take this wonderfully crafted replica which sits in a Grail musuem somewhere

I think I got this when the pound was particularly strong against the dollar so it cost next to nothing anyway.

And if what Craig says about Daniel Love donating the money from this to Greenpeace is true then I guess I can feel good about this purchase - a donation to charity that got me this in return.

Nicely done I'd say

Craig Browning wrote:I think you need to re-read the manuscript a few times, Daniel explains each of those nuances and how, some of it is intended to throw people.

My point was, some of the points that are intended to throw people are likely not to (e.g. the English name of your own sign), and some that aren't intended to throw people very possibly will (e.g. scorpions living in a "tropical" environment). There's also the problem, as mentioned in a previous comment, that the symbol for Aquarius is a human being.

But Daniel says it works for him, so I am more than willing to agree that it must in fact work. I'd just be happier after fiddling with the questions.

It's a wonderfully creative and subtle technique, and all kudos to Daniel for coming up with it.

There's a wonderful story about a young Jewish lad being confronted by a Vampire. He recalled his folklore and quickly grabbed up two sticks and set them into the form of the Cross. The vampire glared at the lad and said, "Silly boy, don't you know that you have to have faith before that works."

The Moral of the Story Is... if you don't believe you can pull it off, you wont!

I can't even begin to count the number of wannabe Mentalist that avoid billet work, muscle reading, psychological manipulation and a handful of other "standard" systems because they know they can't work them and too, they want whatever they do to work every time... which is magician's thinking.

I can assure you, if you can invest your whole self into the idea that you can make this sort of demonstration work, you will. I would lay money on that no matter the challenge (within realistic margins, of course). It is you, your mind, your discipline, and your willingness to be willing to do what it takes to get there that counts.

It's not easy and there are those times when something is simply not going to happen for you though it works for others; no two people are the same e.g. no two people present things in the same way; personality and style are important parts to this sort of presentation or any situation in which verbal manipulation is in play. It is an awkward feeling when you first start using it and for some, a scary sensation when you find it actually working. But through it all, you must have faith in yourself as well as the system or you will only know failure.

*Cough* Latin *Cough*

I'm an American, it's all Greek to me

Actually, 'Zodiac' might come from Greek, being related to the Greek for 'circle of animals' (as in 'zoology'). However, there's a bit of doubt about its origin, precisely because not every sign is an animal. Which sort of leads us back to the point!

The thing I'd say is that no magician is perfect. They will miss little things or subtleties that another person will pick up on. Sometimes it's more a question of individual style and the audiences one works for. In others, it may be because they don't have the knowledge to spot something. None of us can know it all.

But I like to give it a bloody good try.

i wasnt that keen on this, i've had it a while now - in my experience only, i found that it depended wildly on what kind of person you are working with...if they were very visually driven, that impacted on things, the same if they were quite eloquent or even worked with words a lot - that too would have an impact as well...

i ended up just going back to a sealed envelope, and a billet index and a little something extra...

Craig Browning wrote:There's a wonderful story about a young Jewish lad being confronted by a Vampire. He recalled his folklore and quickly grabbed up two sticks and set them into the form of the Cross. The vampire glared at the lad and said, "Silly boy, don't you know that you have to have faith before that works."

The Moral of the Story Is... if you don't believe you can pull it off, you wont!

I can't even begin to count the number of wannabe Mentalist that avoid billet work, muscle reading, psychological manipulation and a handful of other "standard" systems because they know they can't work them and too, they want whatever they do to work every time... which is magician's thinking.

I can assure you, if you can invest your whole self into the idea that you can make this sort of demonstration work, you will. I would lay money on that no matter the challenge (within realistic margins, of course). It is you, your mind, your discipline, and your willingness to be willing to do what it takes to get there that counts.

It's not easy and there are those times when something is simply not going to happen for you though it works for others; no two people are the same e.g. no two people present things in the same way; personality and style are important parts to this sort of presentation or any situation in which verbal manipulation is in play. It is an awkward feeling when you first start using it and for some, a scary sensation when you find it actually working. But through it all, you must have faith in yourself as well as the system or you will only know failure.

*Cough* Latin *Cough*

I'm an American, it's all Greek to me

Agree with that completely.
It's similar to the mindset used with hypnotic suggestion. A good deal comes down to your own confidence in yourself. True of many things in mentalism i suppose.

Part-Timer wrote:Actually, 'Zodiac' might come from Greek, being related to the Greek for 'circle of animals' (as in 'zoology'). However, there's a bit of doubt about its origin, precisely because not every sign is an animal. Which sort of leads us back to the point!

The only non-living sign of the Zodiac is Libra. What not many people know is that Libra used to be the claws of Scorpio. It was hived off to be an independent sign because there was a strong feeling that there ought to be twelve signs, one for each month.

So originally all the signs were of living things, and "Zodiac" was an entirely appropriate term. I'm not sure what circle-of-animals-except-one would be in Greek.

Robbie wrote:So originally all the signs were of living things, and "Zodiac" was an entirely appropriate term. I'm not sure what circle-of-animals-except-one would be in Greek.

Living, yes, but not 'animals', unless the Greeks thought of humans as animals, which seems like a relatively modern invention, what with humans liking to think themselves (literally) as the centre of the cosmos.

This month will be the last chance to buy Dreamsigns, Daniel is working on other projects and this will be removed from sale. You can still purchase Dreamsigns instantly at http://unleashyourdreams.co.uk/Unleash_ ... signs.html after this it will vanish from the site.
It has been a pleasure to work with Daniel these past few years and we wish him all the best for the future.
Regards
Simon

I will never use this effect as long as I have breath in my body - but.......... I'm extremely glad I purchased it. For me the method is always more important than the effect, because you can always adapt it to make it suit your own style. So, when I found out the method I was literally dumbstruck by it.

It is important to note that it's use in dream signs isn't 100%. Now I cross my heart whenever I cross the road so I certainly won't be taking the sort of risks that dreamsigns requires. However, if you know the principle then a little imagination may see you creating an all new amazing mindreading effect. I've been racking my brain trying to find a logical way to use the 'dreamsigns principle' in another surefire way. I have a few ideas in development and maybe I won't think of anything for a decade, but that's the point. It takes the knowledge of systems like this to keep pushing mentalism forward. So, even if you won't use it, stand on the shoulders of giants and buy it anyway. I think it's about 3 quid on Lybrary. At least you won't feel totally robbed if you don't like it!!!

It is important to note that it's use in dream signs isn't 100%.

Hence, it's "real" Mentalism and not a magic trick. Old School Mentalists more than those of current trend, tend to be far more willing to take such a risk for a number of reasons, the biggest being that a miss here and there adds to one's believability level -- even real psychics or experts in astrology rarely know more than a 93-95% hit rate and that's quite rare.

Now I cross my heart whenever I cross the road so I certainly won't be taking the sort of risks that dreamsigns requires. However, if you know the principle then a little imagination may see you creating an all new amazing mindreading effect. I've been racking my brain trying to find a logical way to use the 'dreamsigns principle' in another surefire way.

Again, a sure sign that you're a recovering magician that don't "get it" when it comes to Mentalism. I'm sorry for sounding so harsh or as some might say "dogmatic" but solid and true Mentalism isn't about being 100% correct 100% of the time. When this is the case it creates suspicion in the mind of the public and demotes you commercially, back to the status of trickster/magician. Just as Doug Henning proved in the early 70s that the title "Illusionist" meant getting paid 20% more than a mere "Magician" so too those that present true Mentalism that's entertaining garner the stronger sense of support . . . I word this cautiously because it is the blending of genuine Mentalism with Mental Magic that is the most commercial packaging; pure Mentalism has its own niche arenas which are rarely inclusive of theaters and casino settings. . . and that's not saying that all "Pure" modes of Mentalism hosts a paranormal/metaphysical slant, many do not. But when you look at people like Kreskin, Koran and even Nelson, they all had some big misses throughout their careers which actually brought about larger audiences and more high profiled engagements.

I do about six different Zodiac I.D. bits as a single set with each reveal using an alternative method, Dream Signs is the finale' sequence I walk through in that I want to build on the difficulty, which is common with our craft. I have this arsenal of 6 for those cases in which I'm at a table or with a group of 6 or more; it allows me to do a Character evaluation on each guest and thus, name the sign. It's a powerful demonstration for those of us that do Readings (it's lets you put your card into their hand). . . here again, we're looking at a side of true Mentalism that many in today's mind-set (especially in the UK it would seem) have an aversion towards even though its a major skill factor to the craft as well as one of the better proven money makers, but that's another tale altogether.

On the contrary, I do get it. The public don't care whether I'm a mentalist, a magician, an illusionist or whatever term I apply to myself. They simply want to be entertained. I like entertaining people and I feel most comfortable being right ALL of the time. If you like the risk then that's a matter for you. I get really annoyed by the prescriptive, dogmatic view that some people have of what a mentalist should be and how they should behave. We are individuals after all, and how I present effects, and which effects I choose to present is solely a matter for me.

This is a very good piece but may not suit everyone

kevmundo wrote:On the contrary, I do get it. The public don't care whether I'm a mentalist, a magician, an illusionist or whatever term I apply to myself. They simply want to be entertained. I like entertaining people and I feel most comfortable being right ALL of the time. If you like the risk then that's a matter for you. I get really annoyed by the prescriptive, dogmatic view that some people have of what a mentalist should be and how they should behave. We are individuals after all, and how I present effects, and which effects I choose to present is solely a matter for me.

Keep on believing that