talkmagic.co.uk

This has been confusing me for some time, and it still makes me wonder sometimes. I read in several books on contact mindreading of a guy in the 1800s named Stuart Cumberland, who exposed fake mediums and was very proficient at muscle reading. Someone with the same name has a DVD out on the subject as well as DVDs covering some different areas of mentalism and hypnosis. It can't possibly be the same guy, but the name and area of interests is the same. What's going on?

I have to word this carefully in that the gent in question has threatened to sue me if I tell people the truth about his products. Rather than telling you about his DVD I'll point out that for less of an investment you can gain superior insights and video instruction via Banachek, his book and disc 3 of the PSI Series and (in my opinion) the Erik Jan Hanussen book "Mind Reading & Telepathy".

The Banachek DVD is professionally staged, scripted and produced and true to Steve's reputation, a quality product and not some kind of Garage Video shot with a cheap Camcorder that is barely of broadcast quality... such as many of us have endured over the years.

As to the question, "Who is Stuart Cumberland?" There are in fact two of them, the historic person you reference and the alter-ego of Canadian Mentalist Blair Robertson whose biggest competitor in the "expert" field of marketed goods, is Jonathan Royal...

Hope this gives you the answers you're seeking.

Thanks. I figured Banachek's material can't be beaten.

Now I won't have an image of a 150+ year old man reading minds on DVD. Too bad, really, as that would have been quite neat.

I'm Stuart Cumberland. I've been a full-time performer for 27 years now.

For over 10 years I've had a free weekly ezine for mentalists and I ran a popular forum for five years as well. I've produced numerous products for the trade over the years and I'm considered an authority on Annemann as well as Contact Mind Reading.

My ezine is semi-regular now, and I have a blog that I routinely post to at: StuartCumberland.com . I also run a members-only site called ForbiddenWisdom.com .

I thank you for asking about the dvds. I would invite you to order them and try them for yourself. Many very successful mentalists have praised this set as being the most in-depth training available. I have a money back guarantee and have had such since the beginning.

Best,

Stuart Cumberland

My name is Martin King and I am a member of Mr Cumberland's membership site www.forbiddenwisdom.com!

However, I'd like to point out that I have no financial invested interest in making this post, nor did Mr Cumberland ask me to do so, in other words, it's off my own back!

1. Mr Cumberland is a professional 'stand up guy'!

2. Everything that I've ever ordered from Mr Cumberland is pure 'Gold'.

3. Not only has Mr Cumberland got the many years of pro experience under his belt that he knows what truly works in the real world but also he breaks everything down and makes his teachings so simple that anybody could learn from whatever he teaches.

An example of this would be that Mr Cumberland taught me how to give playing card readings, and within about 15 minutes (max) I knew that I could give playing card readings via his system!

4. I don't have Mr Cumberland's Contact Reading DVD but I can tell you that I have tried learning contact reading via Banachecks method and failed (but that is not a slight on Banacheck/Mr Shaw).

I'm 100% sure that if I tried learning via Mr Cumberland's DVD, I'd learn his system very quickly and I'd succeed!

That's all!

I do not approve of this Banacek personage on the grounds that he is a goody two shoes who does not approve of psychics and furthermore has been most impertinent to me on the Magic Cafe. In addition to that he uses a most dreadful line where two people stand back to back and he makes a most vulgar remark about "hindsight" I had to reprimand him by e-mail about this and for some odd reason he did not reply.

I have met Mr Cumberland in person. He does not look 150 years old. I must say that he holds his age very well. Craig Browning and I are also around 150 years old or so but I am afraid neither of us quite has that youthful look.

Craig has mentioned Mr Cumberland in the same breath as Jonathon Royle. I expect Mr Cumberland will regard this is as the end of civilisation as we know it. I have heard him say some rather rude things about young Jonathon in the past.

And we now have a flood of folks coming over from Blair's club house to defend him.

Folks it's very simple, I have NEVER slandered Blair Robertson or his alter-ego as some would imply. I have merely pointed out, as a critic, that the quality of his products have slipped and the prices are rather outrageous for what you end up with. Magic, in general, has graduated from the days when a poorly typed, grease stained copy was acceptable and considered a "gift". People expect some degree of integrity and planned presentation when viewing video, etc. In my previous comments and statements of "detouring" people from Blair's materials this has been my only position; I still stand by the man and promote his earlier works in that he seemed to invest himself into them and had the desire to give his patrons something of quality for the money ventured.

My only other complaint and this does not apply directly to Blair but ALL that use the over hype infomercial mode of plugging their products. I hate it, I refuse to use it because it is insulting to the consumer (in my mind) and as soon as I encounter such hype I RUN from it. There is nothing about it I find captivating let alone professional. That's not to say that one shouldn't use bullet points and build value in their products, just that they hype and self-glory should be kept a bit more subdued with the details presented in the mode of "class" you envision yourself as having vs. proving to the world that all of your personal taste resided solely in your mouth.

If Blair is on the up and up, he needn't encourage his handful of minions to join this forum and make one and only one post... no into, etc. just a post that either testifies to his saintly demeanor or conversely, alludes to my somehow being a deviant and evil blight on the whole of the industry.


... what the hell? I've never denied being evil

But on the other hand, I do my best to be honest; brutally honest with and about my self while holding others (especially those that see themselves my superior) to nearly as high a standard when it comes to fairness, integrity, and general respect.

I'm being lead to believe that holding such views is wrong and disagreeing with how a creator views his or her products is grounds for liable... I feel so sorry for Consumer Reports if that's the case.

I quite agree with Reverend Browning about over hype. I wonder what he thinks about the following disgraceful website:

http://www.magiciansmakingmoney.com/

Now in the name of God don't send any money to this site. I don't want to be held responsible for any problems. I have had quite a few people phoning me complaining that they ordered and didn't get a response. I don't know if money was lost or not but I don't think so. In any event to be on the safe side I should be contacted privately in case of any desire to order.

I am not sure if the site is defunct or not but I wouldn't take a chance. I do not run the site.

I've known both Stuart & Craig (online only, haven't had the pleasure of meeting either face to face yet) for several years now. I have products produced by them both. I do not always agree with either one of them but give careful consideration to anything either of them have to say about our art. So let me attempt some unbiased comments.

As far as Stuart's products are concerned, each one I've seen has delivered on its promise. It will give you everything he claims it will. If your definition of value in mentalism material is that a product will allow you to make a lot more money than you invested, then Stuarts products are clearly a value. But there are some considerations.

Craig does have some valid criticisms. Some of Stuart's works do appear quickly, and sometimes carelessly, produced. The information in them is still excellent, but be prepared for numerous typoiographical errors in printed material and off-the-top-of-the-head presentations on audio and video materials.

Furthermore, there are often other choices that will give you more just-as-high-quality material or information at a lower price. On the other hand, Stuart has a talent for focusing in on the most vital points. When learning something new, this can sometimes get you up and running faster, while more comprehensive materials will bog you down trying to learn it all before putting it to use. Sometimes it's better to hit the ground running with the basics and then fill in your knowledge as you go. You will have to decide which approach best suits you and whether Stuart's "fileted" approach is worth the money.

I would say that Craig went over the top on comparing Stuart to Jonathan Royle but I share Craig's distaste for the heavy-handed hyper-hyped direct-response copywriting style that so many online marketers are using (Stuart being far from the worst of them). I say that as one who has been a professional copywriter for more than three decades and who should probably be more tolerant of approaches that work. It does work, but there's a sleaze factor to it that I believe has already begun to undercut its usefulness. I know of more and more people who are already clicking away from sites the moment they see that style because they associate it with snake-oil sales. I'll even admit that there is material out there that I've almost bought, and which I know is excellent, but which I just cannot bring myself to buy because of the over-hyped presentation. None of it, let me specify, is Stuarts.

That's the opinion of one guy who respects them both. As always, YMMV.

In other words the hype used to work until everybody else joined the hype bandwaggon. I never like the over-hype myself despite the way my own courses were promoted. But then I had nothing to do with the marketing of them. In fact when I first saw the hype used to market my stuff I confess that I burst out laughing. I didn't even take part in the interview segments. It was all made up by the marketer!

I must say that Stefan has given a balanced and fair review.

If Blair is on the up and up, he needn't encourage his handful of minions to join this forum and make one and only one post... no into, etc. just a post that either testifies to his saintly demeanor or conversely, alludes to my somehow being a deviant and evil blight on the whole of the industry.

Craig, please PM me any proof that I have encouraged my "handful of minions" to make one post to either defend me or knock you. And a reminder that you have not provided me with any proof to date that I have "threatened to sue me (Craig) if I tell people the truth about his products."

Stuart Cumberland

P.S. Many thanks to those of you who have, btw. And thanks to those who demonstrate respect and integrity regarding my name. I do, very much, appreciate it.

P.P.S. From one copywriter to another what is a "typoiographical" error? "be prepared for numerous typoiographical errors in printed material and off-the-top-of-the-head presentations on audio and video materials."

i actually have the muscle reading dvds...

and some of it is very basically shot - however, it wasnt a bad price, and the tips and live performances were very good...at least you're learning from someone who does this for a living...

no slight to banachek obviously...he's a wonderful performer...

i don't like the hard sell either, and the majority of sites that are hard-sell, ironically never look very professional - go look at jonathan royle's if you need proof...

Stuart Cumberland wrote:

If Blair is on the up and up, he needn't encourage his handful of minions to join this forum and make one and only one post... no into, etc. just a post that either testifies to his saintly demeanor or conversely, alludes to my somehow being a deviant and evil blight on the whole of the industry.

Craig, please PM me any proof that I have encouraged my "handful of minions" to make one post to either defend me or knock you. And a reminder that you have not provided me with any proof to date that I have "threatened to sue me (Craig) if I tell people the truth about his products."

Stuart Cumberland

P.S. Many thanks to those of you who have, btw. And thanks to those who demonstrate respect and integrity regarding my name. I do, very much, appreciate it.

P.P.S. From one copywriter to another what is a "typoiographical" error? "be prepared for numerous typoiographical errors in printed material and off-the-top-of-the-head presentations on audio and video materials."

You know BLAIR I already explained where that threat of legal action came from and in addition, where it now lays in the PM boxes here with a more recent implication or two of chatting with your Massachusetts lawyer friend while in the area.

As to your cohorts coming here... I can't (and prefer not to) get onto your forum these days e.g. I cannot access the posts or mailings that may have happened there or via one of your buddies that happen to belong here and seems to love stirring the proverbial pot... But one would be hard pressed to explain how someone new to this forum that's made only one post -- one defending you and your products -- happened to just show up without any kind of invite/encouragement.

As I said above (and as Stephan more or less echoed) my ONLY gripe with you has been the loss in quality in what you produce. I do not believe I've ever argued content even though I personally found the Muscle Reading video "lacking" and emphasizing more of how wonderful you are than technique. Even at that I recall discovering ONE angle of the method I'd never heard anyone else mention. Unlike many I do not see how one bit of info like that equates to product value.

As someone that does do public speaking and has taught workshops for many years I'm a strong supporter of knowing wtf you are going to say, how, when and why... it's called Scripting which any professional knows the power of and why it is a must with ANY presentation. Your lack of scripting in at least two videos I've seen of yours, is what detours their value in my eyes and makes things confusing.

You know me Blair and you know that I'm more than fair when I critique things. I even hinge a bit when dealing with people I know but likewise, when I consider someone a "friend" I will call them on their c*** (not the best) just as they do me. When it happens to me I might have a brief knee jerk (emphasize jerk) reaction, but once I calm down I will usually see at least some of what the other party is trying to say and why. You however have expressed, for well over a year now, an unwillingness to accept such critique and candor. It's quite a disappointment in that I once had far higher regard for you than I can muster these days, simply because of your rather infantile temper tantrum.

I've "apologized" and explained my position on at least two if not three forums now and that's just in the past year. I have never slandered YOU PERSONALLY only expressed my views on your products and their quality' encouraging people to invest their money where it would prove a wiser return on the venture. My typical audience being those "new" to the mentalism world and who, like myself, tend to be a bit tight on the financial side of things. Morally and ethically I cannot see fault in such actions.


BTW... I've yet to have Ian Rowland take affront and threaten me and I've been far more brutal on the content of his famed book than I've been towards anything you've ever produced. I've even been able to correspond with Ian in a very professional manner in that we not only agree to disagree on certain issues, but we are both professionals with a professional attitude towards one another and the issue at hand; I believe Ian understands why I hold to my position towards his book, as does Brad Henderson and a plethora of others who quite frankly, are far better known and established in this world than you which is one of the reasons your constantly acts of lashing out towards me over something I've expressed as a personal position (observation) fails to make sense to me.

Reverend Browning is a little sensitive. I don't see a single one of the "minions" attacking him. Indeed Stefan is partially agreeing with him. Even Blair/Stuart is being gentle with him.

Stuart Cumberland wrote:From one copywriter to another what is a "typoiographical" error? "

Alas, I am a very good writer, but a pathetic typist

Craig Browning wrote:But one would be hard pressed to explain how someone new to this forum that's made only one post -- one defending you and your products -- happened to just show up without any kind of invite/encouragement.

That's a fair suspicion, considering how things usually tend to work online. In this case, though, it's also only fair to let you know that it isn't what happened. One member of Stuart's forum made a post saying that he was being talked about here. No specifics at all were given. That was apparently enough to bring some of us over here to see what was going on, and it happened without any input at all from Stuart.