talkmagic.co.uk

Who’s afraid of the big bad memorised deck?

I am sure that many people will not even open this thread just because it has “memorised deck” as part of the title, and I feel that is a huge shame.

Certainly a short while ago I would have been in this category myself. My main thinking was that a memorised deck is nothing more than a stack, and as I am quite happy using Richard Osterlind’s Breakthrough Card System (BCS), or even the Si Stebbins stack for some effects, then why the dickens would I want to put myself through the effort of learning a memorised deck? Additionally, it isn’t just the initial effort of learning it either, it’s also the on going effort of making sure that it stays memorised!

No. It wasn’t for me. I was quite happy to admit that I was afraid of the big bad memorised deck, and I wasn’t prepared to put in the work needed to use it.

Recently however, I have revaluated my thoughts on this subject. As most of you will already know the memorised deck isn’t just another stack. It is far more than that.

Before I go into the differences though, I will give you one great reason that convinced me that learning a memorised deck may be a worthwhile venture.

Michael Close wrote:A memorised deck allows you to turn any "pick a card" trick into a "think of a card" trick

The first advantage it has over most Stacks is in its 100% total randomness. No one will ever spot a memorised deck as being a Stack (unless they have actually memorised the same deck for themselves). Ok, on it’s own that’s not a huge selling point as lets be honest the BCS is pretty random looking, and also there are many effects that utilise a stack where the cards would never be examined by a spectator anyway.

The second advantage that the memorised deck has over it’s inferior Stack buddies is that at any time you know exactly where any card is in the deck.

If a number is named, you know what card falls at that number. If a card is named, you know what position it is in the deck. Just think for a moment how powerful that could be? Suddenly the holy grail of magic is at your fingertips. The thought of card at thought of position becomes a reality.

I readily admit that a memorised deck still isn’t going to be for everybody, and frankly it is probably a good thing that it isn’t an easy elf worker, as it makes it just that bit more miraculous to all that do put the time and effort in to learn it.

And once it’s memorised of course, the learning doesn’t stop there. You add a few extra skills into the mix, like the ability to do a perfect Faro shuffle, or the ability to estimate how many cards have been cut (even within 3 or 4) then you really do have the skills to be a miracle worker.

So I wonder how many are still reading? And of those that are, how many will at least now think that maybe one day learning a memorised deck could actually be a good thing?

I have just watched the first of Michael Close’s “Worker” series of DVD’s, and I tell you some of the effects that he was doing just beggars belief.

I will leave you with the same quote that I started with, as to me it sums it up nicely.

Michael Close wrote:A memorised deck allows you to turn any "pick a card" trick into a "think of a card" trick

Further reading.

The first place I suggest you go for more information is to read Simon Aronson’s “Memories Are Made Of This”. It is a PDF file, available for downloading for free from his website.

Martin Joyal. The 6 Hour Memorized Deck
Joyal Stack Message Board. A list of memorised deck tricks
Dawrin Ortiz. Real Miracles with a memorised deck of cards.

Michael Close. The Worker Series. Michael Close has a series of 4 DVD’s that contain some great memorised deck routines. Some of these are as about as close to real mind reading as I think is possible.

Well I'm quite pleased with myself, I actually not only opened the thread but read it, ALL the way through.

On the downside I'm still working up to Osterlinds BTCS

You'll love the BCS, and it really doesnt take that long to get comfortable with. I will say though that recentally I have realised that a Si Stebbins deck also still has it's place.

I think too many of us that use it are hung up on maintaining the BCS stack (and I suspect the same is more so for a memorised deck) so we can do 2 or 3 effects with the same deck. This isn't a bad thing, but it can sometimes be a little limiting. Paul Hallas discussed this at a recent lecture I attended, and I feel he made some very valid points.

Quite often I will now set up a Si stebbins deck (as it is much quicker for me to set up than a BCS deck), and use it as an opener. I am not worried about the stack being spotted because once I have used the stack to determine the spec's cards I will make sure they get well and truly shuffled.

Sure, I can't do any more Stack effects with that deck, but as a one off starter it really gets me going with a powerful first trick and if there is a crimp or short card in the deck there are many effects similar to a stack that can also be done.

Don't get me wrong. I really love the BCS and use it a lot. It's just that it's such a pain to set up (I'm a lazy b****r) that I hate it being destroyed as part of a performance. With a Si Stebbins, I don't give a hoot...

In saying that though, I really am determined to at the very least consider learning a memorised deck...

Nice post bananafish!

I have learned Juan Tamariz's memorised deck and it is well worth the effort. You can even set up the deck from a newly opened deck in front of the spectators eyes with some faros and cuts. Therefore making miracles even stronger!

Rumours are flying that Juan's 2 volume mnemonic symphony will be out at the end of August in 1 HUGE book in English. This will be expensive I'm sure but well worth the money

Cliff

Staggering amount of information - thank you!

i used to use a neumonmic system to remember large lists of objects and there positions but i don't use it now much.

for over six years i had a mind reading deck from marvines that i used as a regular deck and became so proficiant at reading it that i could do seval reveal and copy cat tricks on the fly and as for ace assemblys it a doddle.

they dont do the same system anymore and i should take the time to learn the system provided with bikes which i will do, i know its not exactly on topic but iv'e used a 52 set stacked deck for years if you think about it.

Ill be able to comment on this more when I have seen Alan Shaxons Lecture (sort of) on stacked decks. Great post though.

bananafish wrote:If a number is named, you know what card falls at that number. If a card is named, you know what position it is in the deck. Just think for a moment how powerful that could be?

The above statement caught my eye and appealed to me, so I have down loaded the document from Simon Aronson’s web site. I would normally avoid card tricks that require a lot of practice (more like any practice as I don’t have the time) but as I said the above quote made me think about the possibilities. All I need now is time and peace and quite to read and digest. In my youth I looked at Si Stebbins and took time to learn it but never used it for anything.

Manolo Talman (my teacher) did this effect with me when i first started my classes with him. He asked me to think of any card - he asked me which one i'd thought of - and then told me to cut aprox. 1 quarter of the pack. He then asked me to turn over the top card - and it was mine. A KILLER EFFECT!!

He made me wait 4 months before we looked at Juan's deck - Manolo is a good business man as well as a teacher

I have read that Hermetic press (http://www.hermeticpress.com) will have Juan's book for sale very soon. Here is the message from another forum

I just received this email from Stephen Minch in response to an inquiry about the availability of "Mnemonica" (Juan Tamariz's book on his memorized deck):

We are sending Tamariz's "Mnemonica" to the printer tomorrow. It should be ready for shipping in early September. The price will be $65.00 + $6.00 postage. Thanks for your interest in our publications!

This is going to be a great book! Can't wait! The price is incredible - great value for money!

The book is now available to pre-order from http://www.hermeticpress.com/

It gives the table of contents for this 432 page masterpiece. There are over 100 effects!

Here is the description

Ready in early September
Advance orders being accepted

A celebrity of television and stage in Spain and South America, JUAN TAMARIZ is known internationally among magicians as a true master of his art, and one who generously shares his time and knowledge, both in print and in person, with the magic community. He is the author of three critically acclaimed best-selling books in English: The Five Points of Magic, The Magic Way and Sonata. Along with Arturo de Ascanio, Tamariz has spearheaded a school of thought in close-up magic that has produced FISM award-winning champions and deeply influenced the craft of magic worldwide.

Among those things Juan Tamariz is most recognized for, among magicians, is his trailblazing work with the memorized deck—a tool with extraordinary potential for creating utterly baffling magic. Over the past two decades, Tamariz has been the recognized leader in its use and, with Simon Aronson in the United States (who contributes an introduction to this book), the most influential.

Tamariz's memorized deck stack, "Mnemonica", has become a legend with card magicians throughout the world, and within this book he reveals at last its complete workings, as well as teaching the reader how to memorize the stack-forever—in as little as three hours. Accompanying this information are more than a hundred tricks and routines that radically expand the range of effects commonly thought possible with a memorized deck, and an annotated bibliography that leads the reader to an amazing body of additional material on the memorized deck, making Mnemonica the most complete study of its subject ever done.

Mnemonica is a virtual encyclopedia on the subject of memorized-deck magic, by the world's leading exponent and one of magic's acknowledged masters. It is a book crammed with magic from the working repertoire of Juan Tamariz, magic that leaves everyone, public and magicians, utterly astounded. It is a book capable of changing the reader's entire approach to card magic, and a work that supports Juan Tamariz's reputation as one of the most important and creative thinkers in magic today.

432 pages, over 400 photos, hardcover.

PS. HocusPocus are offering the book at an even better price

Cliff

There's a very nice picture of the stack itself on Hermeticpress - it could drive us all bonkers trying to work it out!

There's a very nice picture of the stack itself on Hermeticpress - it could drive us all bonkers trying to work it out!

If I have understood correctly, You're not going to work it out. It's in a pre determined random sequence (is that a contradiction of terms?). It's not like a normal stack (ie, Stebbins, Kings or BCS) that can be calculated, this one is just memorised...

That's what i understand too - he gives 5 methods for memorising the deck - Auditory, visual (the method i used), muscular, conceptual and security.

There is no calculated system ala BCS

There are some computor programs that can help with the learning the system you can download too - here is one http://www.stackview.com

It gives you loads of stacked decks to learn + practise - BCS / Si Stebbinns / Nikola / Aronson...

Cliff

Whilst trudging through a load of old files on my computer yesterday I stumbled accross a copy of Simon Aronson's "memories are made of this", which I read, having only skimmed it the first time round when this thread was started.

I decided to give it a go, and since I already have a working mnemonic peg system it only took about 30 minutes to learn the Aronson stack. However, havng finished learning it I realised that I don't actually know how any of the built in features of the stack work! Which of Aronson's many publications do the worthy members here feel contains the most information on this stack, and has anyone discovered any features themselves?

Obviously, even without the special features I now have a very handy tool, but it would be good to be able to use some of the gambling demonstrations (particularly as my housemate has just bought a load of poker chips and declared that we shall have regular poker nights!)