NEW VERSION 8 kings stack

Struggling with an effect? Any tips (without giving too much away!) you'd like to share?

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NEW VERSION 8 kings stack

Postby Miniolo » Feb 10th, '11, 14:04



Hi guys and girls ;)

I was just freshing up some of my old tricks and sleights etc and I found a trick that used the 8 kings stack

but i came to the conclusion i dislike the stack because you cant show its no stack... when i show it you cant see there is a order number wise because of the 8 kings

but THE COLORS are *****d up CHaSeD makes the order of the cards red black red black etc.. when u change the order u can get a maximum of 2 black cards next to eachother but u see there are groups of 2:P red red black black red red black black

SO I decided to make my own variation of the 8 kings stack based

i know have a system which is very easy to learn without hard mathematic stuff

this causes the cards to be more randomly color scrambled instead of a simple pattern


NOW MY QUESTION is:P

does this already excist or anything similair to it?

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Postby Part-Timer » Feb 10th, '11, 14:23

Chan Canasta changed the suit order in a stack so that sometimes you got two red cards or two black cards next to each other. It allowed him to get a spectator to grab a couple (or more) cards without the suit rotation being quite so apparent.

That is a good reason to do this change. I have never felt the need to show the faces to prove that the deck is not in any particular order whenever I have worked with the 8 Kings or Si Stebbins stacks.

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Postby Miniolo » Feb 10th, '11, 14:37

Ahaa thanks :D but if he would show it it would be sometimes sets of 2 and the rest alternating or al sets of 2?

my stack now is

1Red/2Black/2Red/3Black/2Red/1Black/1Red/1Black

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Postby Robbie » Feb 10th, '11, 14:45

The main thing is, if your system works for you, then it works, hooray! And if you feel better using it, that's a big plus.

As a rule, people don't read cards at a glance. If you spread quickly through a deck, showing a few cards here and a few cards there, not pausing very long at each spread... nobody's going to notice a strict rotation. They'll just see some black and some red, some pictures and some not, and agree it looks pretty well mixed.

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Postby Miniolo » Feb 10th, '11, 14:46

Oh and btw ofcourse its not Neccesary to show the faces.. :P but its an cool extra when u fan the cards to show them

i used to DRIBBLE spread the cards on the table the Dribble made sure the cards where not shown as alternating because of the dribble wasnt perfect like a fan or a normal spread (more blocks of cards or doubles)

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Postby Miniolo » Feb 10th, '11, 14:49

@Robbie

yes i do understand THEY never see the 8 kings stack itself because its a long pattern of 13 cards... but they DO see when u show them 5 cards that they are RED BLACK RED BLACK alternating... if u make a basic 8 kings stack in a CHASED order with the suits and u will take another deck and shuffle it and spread it next to it:P u will notice how different they are really

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Postby IanKendall » Feb 10th, '11, 14:54

By coincidence, I'm currently writing my column for MUM magazine about the Eight Kings and Si Stebbins stacks.

I really think you are running without being chased. As has been said, if it works for you then great, but you are adding an extra level of complexity into a system that really doesn't need it. The great thing about these stacks is that they are ideal for beginners who don't want to have to remember too much information.

Take care, Ian

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Postby Part-Timer » Feb 10th, '11, 15:04

Miniolo wrote:Ahaa thanks :D but if he would show it it would be sometimes sets of 2 and the rest alternating or al sets of 2?


I am not sure that he would ever have shown the faces, but I might be wrong.

1Red/2Black/2Red/3Black/2Red/1Black/1Red/1Black


His variation would not have looked like that.

Your approach sounds interesting, and I don't think we can dismiss its usefulnees without knowing the details, but my instinct is that this is going to over-complicate what should be a very simple stack. If you are going to start making changes, whether or not easy to remember, I start to wonder if you wouldn't be better off using Doug Dyment's stack, or Richard Osterlind's BCS.

I still like the traditional set up, because there is a great cards in pocket routine that can be done with it, which I suspect would not work with some of the variations.

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Postby Miniolo » Feb 10th, '11, 15:12

@ part timer

Doug Dyment's stack, or Richard Osterlind's BCS. ??

Whats that ?


I just wanted to know if this has been done what i made ... if not i will share it :D

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Postby Miniolo » Feb 10th, '11, 15:14

@ian

Hii yeah i know what you mean its overkill:P but i know by experience when some one asks to see the cards and u say no the effect is ruined... and with my simple variation of the stack that EVEN beginners can do it is possible to show them without being afraid they will find out...

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Postby Part-Timer » Feb 10th, '11, 15:20

Doug Dyment's QuickStack from Mindsights: http://www.deceptionary.com/mindsights.html

Osterlind's BCS is quite famous, but the best place for you to read about it here might be this review: http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic37627.php

Neither is the same as your stack. My point is that once you start complicating the 8 Kings or Si Stebbins stacks, why not go for something that is only slightly more difficult, but even more deceptive?

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Postby IanKendall » Feb 10th, '11, 15:25

If someone is asking to see the cards then you need to work on your presentation. That should never be an issue.

Ian

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Postby Ted » Feb 10th, '11, 15:26

Doug Dyment also released the DAO stack recently. I love it, and now use it in place of Si Stebbins. It looks completely random.

That said... I used Si Stebbins for absolutely ages and showed the faces. The trick is to not spend too long doing so, and to not spread the cards smoothly. Mash them around in chunks, rather than perform a fine ribbon spread. You are, after all, only showing that they are normal cards (without actually *saying* so!). Don't make a song and dance out of it :)

I can't speak highly enough of the DAO stack. It's really easy to learn, too. I looked at the Breakthrough stack once and it hurt my head. DAO is, for me at least, much simpler to use.

T.

EDIT: Just seen Ian's post. Agreed. If they are *asking* to see the cards then there's a worse problem than an obvious stack at play. I don't think there's any harm in running through a face-up deck roughly, Charlier shuffle and go straight into something, though.

EDIT2: And if someone does ask to see them, after you've performed, give them a casual riffle shuffle and hand them over. Normal people don't know about stacks.

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Postby Miniolo » Feb 10th, '11, 15:34

Hmm thanks for the links;):D

well here is my stack at least the first set :

C8/Hk/D3/S10/C2/H7/D9/H5/Cq/S4/Da/S6/Dj


how it works is very easy instead of alternating colors it alternates MINOR and MAJOR (spades and hearts being MAJOR) (clubs and diamonds MINOR)

The color system is based on even and odd ...if the card u glimpse is RED/EVEN like a 4 of hearts.. the next card will be a ACE(1) that is ODD and thus a different color and ofcourse a minor card so CLUBS

please tell me what u think about this ;)

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Postby Part-Timer » Feb 10th, '11, 15:36

Thanks for that, Ted. I shall be buying Doug's new book very soon indeed!

While I largely agree that people should not ask to see your cards, and that it is almost entirely a presentation issue, very occasionally you will meet someone who wants to interfere for some reason. I have to say that I've not had it happen to me (yet), but there are some quite rude people out there!

Of course, just because they ask, doesn't mean that you have to comply. Ted has mentioned a couple of ways round this.

If, however, it happens a lot, or if you decide you have to demonstrate everything is fair all the time, then it is definitely a presentation problem.

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