flourishing implies sleight of hand

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flourishing implies sleight of hand

Postby theycallmesuperman » Mar 2nd, '11, 01:48



hey people,

recently i was at a party doing card tricks, and ive gotten pretty good at doing a few flourishes, false cuts etc etc, anyway after showing a trick to someone they said something along the lines of, because i flourish and show that i have skill with cards, it makes the effect look more like ive done sleight of hand. If that makes sense, like if i didnt do the one handed fan, or the sybil cut, then the viewer is more likely to believe i performed a magical act.

im just curious to know what you think of flourishing and how much it should be used in close up magic etc etc

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Postby Mandrake » Mar 2nd, '11, 02:11

We've discussed this sooooo many times before, check the search function for all those lengthy threads :wink: !

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Postby Flood » Mar 2nd, '11, 04:00

Here's my point of view.

I'm very skilled with cards myself without tooting my own whistle.I can do sybils and a ton of more fancy stuff with cards.However when I'm performing I never ever do sybils.Three reasons

It doesn't impress people half as much as a half decent trick.doesn't impress most people actually

I feel like a show off which makes me kinda embarassed

It weakens effects terribly

I find that there is nothing more cringy than a magician breaking into a sybil during a performance.It's possibly the most pretensious thing you can do with a deck during a perfomance.Actually do you know what?I'm gonna stop typing now because I'm just after thinking of the Dynamo shuffle and It's made me cringe so much that I don't want to think or talk about this any more

Flourishes are great fun.They're more fun than practicing sleights for me.But do them for yourself not for others during a performance

One handed cuts and fans are cool but sybils are just rediculous

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Postby Casanova » Mar 2nd, '11, 09:52

I had the privilege of speaking to Jerry Andrus before he passed and he had the incredibly adamant view that it was the difference between magic and trickery. The difference between people leaving your show in shock and awe going, "How the h*** did he do that?" or "Well he was really good with cards"
Flourishes have there place. In an exhibition routine (Think Richard turner) they are very appropriate as they further demonstrate your skill. But in a magical performance (think Paul Harris) I believe that flourishes should be left to the bare minimum. Meaning spreads and elegant handling but no over the top flourishing.
I once heard Paul draper compare Richard turner and Paul Harris as Batman and superman. It was very amusing.

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Re: flourishing implies sleight of hand

Postby screwystewie » Mar 2nd, '11, 11:17

theycallmesuperman wrote:hey people,

recently i was at a party doing card tricks, and ive gotten pretty good at doing a few flourishes, false cuts etc etc, anyway after showing a trick to someone they said something along the lines of, because i flourish and show that i have skill with cards, it makes the effect look more like ive done sleight of hand. If that makes sense, like if i didnt do the one handed fan, or the sybil cut, then the viewer is more likely to believe i performed a magical act.

im just curious to know what you think of flourishing and how much it should be used in close up magic etc etc


Your friend was right. If you want to do magic, drop the flourishes. If you want to be a cool juggler that impresses everyone for 2 minutes, do flourishes. Choice is simple. :)

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Postby mrz0mbie » Mar 2nd, '11, 14:20

Casanova wrote:I once heard Paul draper compare Richard turner and Paul Harris as Batman and superman. It was very amusing.



That's awesome. Did he say it in passing or did he elaborate on that thought at all?

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Postby mark lewis » Mar 2nd, '11, 14:58

I am amazed to hear that Jerry Andrus said that. His card magic was very flourishy, albeit in a quiet way.

Anyway I figured all this out years ago and in fact I wrote quite a bit about it in my "Wit and Wisdom" e-book. Flourishes are a double edged sword. They can do you a lot of good or they can do you a lot of harm.

The way the young magicians use them nowadays is the harmful way. They have to be used with intelligence and discretion at the right time and in the right manner.

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Postby Mr_Grue » Mar 2nd, '11, 15:44

*cough* Dynamo *cough*

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Postby Arkesus » Mar 2nd, '11, 18:52

Flourishes are to the professional magician what keepy ups are to the professional footballer.

Time Magazines Person Of The Year 2006.
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Postby bmat » Mar 2nd, '11, 18:53

I've said it once and I'll say it again. You have to find your style.

To be so incredibly dogmatic and say that flourishes take away from magic shows a lack of experience. It would be far more accurate to say; "when I do flourishes it takes away from my magicial performance"

If you can work the flourish into the effect where it makes sense a flourish can inhance the effect in question. Go in with the wrong attitude then it can detract from the effect. It is all a matter of your routining and style of performing.

Sybil has been mentioned. Just to break into Sybil because you can will detract from the effect. However built into a routine such as.

"People often how I perform this effect, well I cheat just a little, while I cut the cards I actually look for your card. See it is not here, it is not here, or here, here or here (sybil) so it must be here"

Because I don't go into a routine portraying myself as just some guy off the street people expect me to be proficient with cards. The flourish is fancy but not out of character, it is not pretentious because I work very hard to make sure I don't come across that way, (even though I secretly think everybody is below me :lol: ).

Don't get me wrong I'm not an extreme flourish type of magician I just throw the odd one in now and again.

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Postby mark lewis » Mar 2nd, '11, 19:06

I have no energy to expound on this but it is a mistake to classify all flourishes under one category. There are, in fact, THREE categories of flourishes and your policy should depend on which type of flourish is under consideration.

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Postby SpareJoker » Mar 3rd, '11, 11:06

Do yourself a favour and read Darwin Ortiz's essay on this very subject. It's in the back of 'Scams & Fantasies'.

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Re: flourishing implies sleight of hand

Postby Mandrake » Jun 10th, '15, 22:04

Bumpety bump.....

R Paul Wilson's take on this topic can be found at http://machinebreak.blogspot.co.uk/2015 ... s-why.html

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Re: flourishing implies sleight of hand

Postby mark lewis » Jun 10th, '15, 23:46

I have no objection to all this "cardistry" providing it is followed as a separate art form apart from magic. I have been told that most of the people that do this stuff don't actually do any tricks at all and if this is the case I have no problem with it. The trouble starts when you combine it with card magic. I am not saying don't do card flourishes when performing card tricks. I am saying you have to be bloody careful how you go about it otherwise the effect of your work will be diluted and you will get reactions which are not quite as strong.

I discussed my philosophy on all this stuff on this thread:

ftopic12712.php

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Re: flourishing implies sleight of hand

Postby MrCat » Jun 11th, '15, 00:50

Here's my pennies worth from a man who can't flourish to save his life;

https://youtu.be/gba-HdR0O3c?t=1m50s (she only does a brief flourish but I just love it so much, and it fits :)

I have never felt the need to use them yet (or learn them), but people still groove on my card tricks. I think in most cases with the stuff I do they would most likely take away some of the magic yes, I know what your friend means. 'Find their place' if you want to show them off, and totally why not! If you can do it and you wanna, bring it on!

If it were me I'd think the time would be a little after I'd done all my killer tricks and just wanted to show off a bit :D

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