Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby kry10 » Sep 13th, '11, 12:05



Okay guys and gals, got a question that might either tear apart reality, or, just give you all an almighty headache.

In "Let's Kill Hitler", the minature (spell) people who seemed to be some kind of bounty hunters, well, when they saw river become river song, she was the young coloured girl first, can't remember her name, but, she regenerated after being shot into the river song we all know, but, the bounty hunters said, no, we cannot stop her as she WILL kill the doctor in the future and that has to happen otherwise the timeline will be re-written.
But, the river song who DID kill the doctor was a young girl with blonde hair, not the river song we know, so, that must have been an earlier regeneration, not a later one, but, if the bounty hunters said that she will kill the doctor in the future, then, erm, dang, my head is hurting.....

Anyone able to shed some light on things ?????????

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby Part-Timer » Sep 13th, '11, 20:46

me_simon wrote:I stand corrected. But the blood is still on his hands!!


I quite liked some of the ideas in Fear Her. The scribbles that became real were good and the monster father was actually a very scary creature (probably more so for kids than adults).

In looking up Fear Her, I was reminded of The Impossible Planet and The Satan Pit from the same series - two absolutely terrifying episodes. Loved them.


Classic nu Who, in my opinion. Great set-up (possibly the best for a two parter of the new run) with a somewhat weak finish that didn't quite match the standard of the first three quarters of the story.


magicrob wrote:Farting Alien on Space Surfboard=Blon Slitheen on Extrapolator (though Part-Timer forgot to add, 'Who Turned Into an Egg'!) from 'Boom Town' ;)


I call a spade a spade (otherwise card routines get very complicated). Turning into an egg I can cope with. The rest, less so!


kry10 wrote:But, the river song who DID kill the doctor was a young girl with blonde hair, not the river song we know, so, that must have been an earlier regeneration, not a later one, but, if the bounty hunters said that she will kill the doctor in the future, then, erm, dang, my head is hurting.....

Anyone able to shed some light on things ?????????


Yes. You've invented something we haven't seen. The Doctor was "killed" (as we are meant to understand it at the moment) by a weapon installed in a modified NASA spacesuit. We were never shown what, if anything, was in the suit at that time (as I recall, someone asked in 1969 if the suit could possibly move by itself, prompted by the girl's comment that the spaceman had swallowed her).

The blonde girl you've mentioned was apparently Melody (presumably the first incarnation, although possibly not, in view of the photo of Amy with her baby on the table in the little girl's room at the orphanage, but timey-wimey, wibbly-wobbly, that photo might have actually been from later in the girl's life). We saw that girl in a similar (or the same) spacesuit to the one that "killed" the Doctor, but that was back in 1969. We also saw her regenerating about six months later (around the turn of 1970).

It's not impossible that that incarnation of Melody was taken into the future to kill the Doctor, but there's really nothing to show that this happened. I think you have just assumed that because the blonde girl version of Melody was in the suit in 1969, she must have been in it in 2011.

As to the records showing that River Song killed the Doctor - the classic rule of computing might apply - garbage in, garbage out.

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby Jean » Sep 13th, '11, 23:39

Part-Timer wrote:As to the records showing that River Song killed the Doctor - the classic rule of computing might apply - garbage in, garbage out.


River Song already killed the Doctor and then brought him back. As for who's in the spacesuit, right now my moneys on the future/paradox Amy Pond.

What confuses me is if River and the Doctors lives are going in opposite directions doesn't that mean 'Lets kill Hitler' was River's first meeting and the Doctors last? Are we not going to see River Song again?

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby Randy » Sep 14th, '11, 07:17

While the episode was great, I have one major problem with this season as whole.

*spoilers*




Last Season ended with not only the plot of who shot The Doctor and how he died (which is actually a throw back to a old Colin Baker episode where his companions see him talking to a mysterious figure in the distance and it turns out it's a future version of the Doctor preparing himself for his death.) and the whole plot of the eye patch lady pulling the rug out from under The Doctor and still having Amy and Rory's daughter.

Yes we know now they supposedly "brought her up", even though I find that a huge cop out and load of c*** (not the best). Their daughter is still MIA and really even though the Doctor mentioned it ONCE "Oh I looked for 3 months and found nothing. Welp, let's go have a spot of tea!" I'm still kind of miffed with how nonchalant they are about their kid still missing. Specially sense we were left with a such a huge cliff hanger and then it was promptly pushed under the rug, also due to the fact that this season is pretty much done till next year, because Moffat blew his budget and sucks at actually doing middles.
*end spoilers*

I did like this episode and felt it was decent on it's own and really The Doctor has kind of ignored the time travels of the past before. Wasn't there an old episode where the Time Lords summoned 3 versions of the Doctor in the same time line, and also the Christmas Special had old man scrooge hug his younger self and that didn't screw up the time line or anything. Not to mention the Big Bang/Pandrica Opens.

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby Rob » Sep 14th, '11, 11:03

Although - yes - you'd expect any parent to be mortified at the thought of their missing daughter growing up without them, and them missing her entire childhood, 'Let's Kill Hitler' addresses this by actually having both child versions of Amy & Rory actually growing up WITH their daughter, over her entire childhood (Mels/Melody, who was then shot by Hitler, before regenerating into the River Song version of Melody Pond).

So, really, Amy & Rory probably got to spend far MORE time with their daughter s her best friends, then they otherwise would've as her parents.

Simples ;)

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby TheStoner » Sep 14th, '11, 11:52

themagicwand wrote:I guess I just miss the Daleks. And the Cybermen. And David Tennant. :D


HUGE SPOILER (highlight to read): If IMDB is to believed then you won't be missing Tennant for much longer!

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby Rob » Sep 14th, '11, 12:15

IMDB is most definitely NOT to be trusted; any idiot with a net connection can add information to it.
A this moment, there is no firm news about any actors from previous seasons returning for series 7 ;)

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby Lawrence » Sep 14th, '11, 13:12

magicrob wrote:IMDB is most definitely NOT to be trusted; any idiot with a net connection can add information to it.

Yeah, sorry about that

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby Part-Timer » Sep 14th, '11, 19:49

SPOILERS! (Who read that and heard Alex Kingston's voice?)


Jean Eugene Roberts wrote:River Song already killed the Doctor and then brought him back. As for who's in the spacesuit, right now my moneys on the future/paradox Amy Pond.


I might have remembered this wrong, but didn't the Justice Department's records show the Doctor's death as occurring at Lake Silencio in 2011? Also, the Doctor didn't die from the Judas Tree poison. We've already seen (at Lake Silencio) that if the Doctor actually dies, regenerations don't work, so River saved the Doctor with her remaining regenerations before he actually died.

It's impossible to know who (no pun intended) was in the spacesuit. They've been throwing red herrings (should be herring, I know, but that looks odd) around like nobody's business. River is on record as killing the Doctor. The spacesuit might be able to move by itself. Somehow the Flesh copy of the Doctor might have survived. We've seen that the original pilot/passenger was Melody, before she became River.

What confuses me is if River and the Doctors lives are going in opposite directions doesn't that mean 'Lets kill Hitler' was River's first meeting and the Doctors last? Are we not going to see River Song again?


They are meeting out of order, but not necessarily absolutely backwards. We'll just have to wait and see (but we know River's back in at least one more episode, thanks to the trailer for the second half of the series).

Randy wrote:Last Season ended with not only the plot of who shot The Doctor and how he died (which is actually a throw back to a old Colin Baker episode where his companions see him talking to a mysterious figure in the distance and it turns out it's a future version of the Doctor preparing himself for his death.)


I think you've confused two similar stories from the original Who run (or just got a name wrong). There was the "Watcher" who was a distant observer in the Tom Baker's final story and who turned out to be a sort of "in-betweener" stage between the Doctor's fourth and fifth incarnations and, as you say, was preparing the Doctor for the change. In the Colin Baker story/season The Trial of a Time Lord, one of the Doctor's enemies turned out to be a future version of himself. And it made no sense at all.

Yes we know now they supposedly "brought her up", even though I find that a huge cop out and load of c*** (not the best). Their daughter is still MIA and really even though the Doctor mentioned it ONCE "Oh I looked for 3 months and found nothing. Welp, let's go have a spot of tea!" I'm still kind of miffed with how nonchalant they are about their kid still missing. Specially sense we were left with a such a huge cliff hanger and then it was promptly pushed under the rug, also due to the fact that this season is pretty much done till next year, because Moffat blew his budget and sucks at actually doing middles.
*end spoilers*


He was away for three months to Amy and Rory, but I've been wondering how long he was away in Doctor time. Remember that the Doctor who was killed at the lake was apparently a couple of hundred years older than he should have been?

I did like this episode and felt it was decent on it's own and really The Doctor has kind of ignored the time travels of the past before. Wasn't there an old episode where the Time Lords summoned 3 versions of the Doctor in the same time line, and also the Christmas Special had old man scrooge hug his younger self and that didn't screw up the time line or anything. Not to mention the Big Bang/Pandrica Opens.


As I said above, sometimes a time paradox has no effects at all, while at others it is supposed to be disastrous. The Pandorica Opens causality problems were explained away as the rules of time being especially weak due to the destruction of almost the whole of time and space. They can do what they like - it's fiction and wibbly-wobbly "science"/fantasy fiction at that. It can change one week to the next.

Which means that I have just undermined my argument that the Doctor didn't actually die from the poison lipstick. Oops!

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby Jean » Sep 14th, '11, 22:13

Part-Timer wrote:I might have remembered this wrong, but didn't the Justice Department's records show the Doctor's death as occurring at Lake Silencio in 2011? Also, the Doctor didn't die from the Judas Tree poison. We've already seen (at Lake Silencio) that if the Doctor actually dies, regenerations don't work, so River saved the Doctor with her remaining regenerations before he actually died.


He did die from the tree poison thats why he couldn't regenerate and river had to give up all her regenerations to bring him back to life. It was a Timelord defib. He was officially dead when she kissed him. So River did murder the Doctor even if she brought him back, perhaps the Justice Department has a 'no take backs' policy.

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby Randy » Sep 14th, '11, 22:28

Jean Eugene Roberts wrote:
Part-Timer wrote:I might have remembered this wrong, but didn't the Justice Department's records show the Doctor's death as occurring at Lake Silencio in 2011? Also, the Doctor didn't die from the Judas Tree poison. We've already seen (at Lake Silencio) that if the Doctor actually dies, regenerations don't work, so River saved the Doctor with her remaining regenerations before he actually died.


He did die from the tree poison thats why he couldn't regenerate and river had to give up all her regenerations to bring him back to life. It was a Timelord defib. He was officially dead when she kissed him. So River did murder the Doctor even if she brought him back, perhaps the Justice Department has a 'no take backs' policy.


No they stated that he dies for real at the lake and that she is the one who kills him. Another thing is, shouldn't he also be a war criminal. He did after all trap his entire race and the dalek's in a time lock and then fled the scene. I'd say that's pretty much something a war criminal would do.

So River is still wanted by the Time Cops and it seems that The Doctor still dies at that lake and supposedly according to Moffat that is REALLY him. Though I am sure they will come up with some way to fix it and also end the River Song story line by having The Doctor find their daughter before she get's brainwashed and thus prevent his death.

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby Rob » Sep 14th, '11, 22:28

Hey Jean!

Jean Eugene Roberts wrote:
Part-Timer wrote:I might have remembered this wrong, but didn't the Justice Department's records show the Doctor's death as occurring at Lake Silencio in 2011? Also, the Doctor didn't die from the Judas Tree poison. We've already seen (at Lake Silencio) that if the Doctor actually dies, regenerations don't work, so River saved the Doctor with her remaining regenerations before he actually died.


He did die from the tree poison thats why he couldn't regenerate and river had to give up all her regenerations to bring him back to life. It was a Timelord defib. He was officially dead when she kissed him. So River did murder the Doctor even if she brought him back, perhaps the Justice Department has a 'no take backs' policy.


Sadly, I'm gonna' have to disagree with you here - if a Time Lord dies before he/she can regenerate, that's it - they're actually, properly dead.

We've seen this referenced at several points (most obviously in 'Turn Left', when Doc 10 croaks before he can regenerate, courtsey of Donna not being there, and consequently getting trapped by the Thames floodwaters that he uses to defeat the Racnoss).

Essentially, if the Doctor is 'Officially Dead', then he's DeadDead!!

Aside from Lake Silencio, obviously, and despite old Canton's declaration to the contrary :wink: :lol:

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby Beardy » Sep 25th, '11, 12:21

Can't wait until next week!!

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby Jean » Sep 25th, '11, 13:11

Looks like I was dead wrong about the impossible astronaut, (although I'm still hoping for a twist to prove me right next episode)

Anyone else spot the Darlek in the 'next week' section? I hope there's only one of them. One Darlek is badass, a hundred Darleks suck.

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Re: Doctor Who - The Girl Who Waited

Postby kry10 » Sep 25th, '11, 14:56

It definitely explained a thing or two.

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