the term magician

Can't find a suitable category? Post it here!!

Moderators: Lady of Mystery, nickj, Mandrake, bananafish, support, Rob

World-Of-Magic, Suppliers of quality Magic Worldwide Web Design for Magicians Best prices around! Sorcery Shop - Home of the ITR ink cartridges Playing Cards for Magicians

the term magician

Postby Flood » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:58 am



Lately I've being thinking that we sell ourselves short with the term magician.anytime anyone hears I'm a magician they instantly ask do I do kids parties etc...there is always a feeling of being undermined when talking to someone who is not aware of exactly what you do.''so do you pull rabbits out of hats'' said in a condescending manner is quite embarrassing to be honest.

Recently at a gig a old woman told me after that when she heard that there was a magician coming she said she was like oh I hate magicians and assumed it was for the kids until she saw my performance.

Now I know someone thinking along those lines can be used as an advantage as she was so overwhelmed with the magic she insisted on having photos taken of me and her together but I can't help but to feel awkward when I'm not performing and someone is told I do magic.the conversation is always awkward unless I have some sort of demonstration which I never usually do

Flood
Senior Member
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: Dublin,Ireland

Re: the term magician

Postby mark lewis » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:31 am

I think that old lady is a woman of astute judgement if she said she hates magicians. I hate them too. I am glad you won her over in the end. No doubt it was as a result of my sterling tuition of you when you were a mere thirteen year old (I think). I hope to God you learned how to do the French Drop by now. About 25 years or so ago it was quite painful to watch. Still, I expect you have figured it out by now.

mark lewis
Elite Member
 
Posts: 3712
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:41 am

Re: the term magician

Postby Allen Tipton » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:40 am

Many Many magicians are to blame for the 'I hate magicians' syndrome.

1. They force tricks on people at a moment's notice--OFTEN without being asked.
During my 8 years of Presidency of the Nottingham Guild of Magicians, all Committee meetings were held at my home.
There was one magician who insisted, everytime, thrusting the 'latest' under my wife's nose--Literally!
She used to stay in the kitchen till they were in the dining room--commiting Guild business. Only sticking her head round the door to say coffee is ready.
No wonder she hates Magic.
All our friends are told..'Not interested. That is Allen's 'thing'.
My closest friend , a pro magician of some 20 years sometimes met a very well known & very clever magician when he and his girl friend came out of the cinema.
The girl hated the way, the well known one, INSISTED on showing her several tricks--EVERY TIME they met.

2. The second reason is--too little thought and often too little rehearsal goes into the average amateur's routines & handling.
So they become a boor.

3. Card tricks. Oh God! I once took a young magician to task when he said he went to the local pub. EVERY week and did 2 hours of card tricks.

4. There is TOO much magic available to TOO many people these days. Any Tom Dick or Harry can get hold of the stuff and once a person gets hold of some tricks-
usually card ones--he (never met any woman guilty of this) THINKS they ARE a magician.
Even one of our local taxi drivers insists on imposing on me--his latest idea with a TT.EVERYTIME he picks us up!

SO ALL Magicians & Would Be magicians--PLEASE concentrate on: Mystery with Entertainment. ENTERTAINMENT with Mystery. Surprise, Laughter, Creating A Sense of
Wonder in your audience. Keep the routines short. Do not go on and on. Do not perform UNLESS asked. Make Magic a pleasure to watch WITH THE PUBLIC & Not just
for You
Follow Chris Dugdale's advice in his book, 'Psychological Applications for Magicians book 2'--- 'When with friends and you are asked to do a trick. DON'T do it. Say--'Later I will show you something you will remember'. THEN leave them..go to the bar--the toilet--anywhere. Return, after a while and IF they still ask--just do one trick'
I have paraphrased Chris's advice just to save me reaching the book off the bookshelves.

Allen Tipton

Began magic at 9 in 1942. Joined Staffs M.S at 13. Nottm.Guild of M. (8 times President. Prog Director 20years)IBM. Awarded Magician of Month 1980 By Intern. Pres. IBM for reproducing Dante's Sim Sala Bim. Writes Dear Magician column for Abra. Mag.
User avatar
Allen Tipton
Magical Maestro
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 3:24 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: the term magician

Postby Lawrence » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:12 am

I always say "entertainer" now rather than "magician"
It usually leads to the question of "what sort of entertainment?" to which the word "magic" or "magician" doesn't feature in the first few sentences of responce (but then I do juggling and balloons too so I can drag it out a bit I guess)

Custom R&S decks made to specification - PM me for details
User avatar
Lawrence
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 5069
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:40 pm
Location: Wakefield 28:SH

Re: the term magician

Postby Mandrake » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:32 am

Wonderfully wise words as always Allen, everyone please read, mark, learn and inwardly digest!

User avatar
Mandrake
.
 
Posts: 26877
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: UK (69:AH)

Re: the term magician

Postby Lord Freddie » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:15 pm

Seconded re: Allen's post. Spot on as always.

I only ever once met up with a group of magicians and they all insisted on boring each other senseless by showing each other card tricks (often another ACAAN or their 'twist' on an ACR). As if I haven't seen enough card tricks already. It was one of the most depressing experiences of my life and made me lose interest in magic for a short while. It's one of the reasons why I don't join clubs or magic conventions.

www.themysticmenagerie.com

"You're like Yoda ..... you'd sell out to a Vodaphone advert if the money was right."
User avatar
Lord Freddie
Elite Member
 
Posts: 3657
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:23 pm
Location: Berkshire

Re: the term magician

Postby Reverend Tristan » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:59 pm

Lord Freddie wrote:Seconded re: Allen's post. Spot on as always.

I only ever once met up with a group of magicians and they all insisted on boring each other senseless by showing each other card tricks (often another ACAAN or their 'twist' on an ACR). As if I haven't seen enough card tricks already. It was one of the most depressing experiences of my life and made me lose interest in magic for a short while. It's one of the reasons why I don't join clubs or magic conventions.


Freddie I think you and me should hit Blackpool next year :lol: :lol:

I use pyschic entertainer mainly these days but I am leaning towards the Shaman name tag.

Mainly people who know me say I am weird anyway and maybe a handful of close friends call me a magician.

User avatar
Reverend Tristan
Senior Member
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:22 am
Location: worksop

Re: the term magician

Postby Mandrake » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:06 pm

Reverend Tristan wrote:Freddie I think you and me should hit Blackpool next year :lol: :lol:


Seriously, that would be a good idea. Many people there think that magic starts and ends with a deck of cards, plenty of fancy flourishes and mutual backslapping.

User avatar
Mandrake
.
 
Posts: 26877
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: UK (69:AH)

Re: the term magician

Postby Lord Freddie » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:21 pm

Mandrake wrote:
Reverend Tristan wrote:Freddie I think you and me should hit Blackpool next year :lol: :lol:


Seriously, that would be a good idea. Many people there think that magic starts and ends with a deck of cards, plenty of fancy flourishes and mutual backslapping.


If I hit Blackpool, I would also bring a long a list of people I want to hit. Could be a violent and expensive weekend...

Another thing that's annoying about magicians is when they tell you in great detail about a convulted, tedious routine they have come up with. Your mind just wanders whilst they ramble on....

Plus magicians have a bad rep as they take the public for fools and assume they won't think of the obvious. Another point, which Allen raised, is many think the effect itself is enough and don't feel they have to make it entertaining or add any kind of personality to their performance. Does anyone, other than magicians, think that things like The Magic Square and drawn out prediction routines using six spectators and a gaffed calculator are in any way interesting?

www.themysticmenagerie.com

"You're like Yoda ..... you'd sell out to a Vodaphone advert if the money was right."
User avatar
Lord Freddie
Elite Member
 
Posts: 3657
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:23 pm
Location: Berkshire

Re: the term magician

Postby Mandrake » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:31 pm

As there's a distinct difference between magic performed live and the stuff seen on TV, I wonder which one imposes the worst image of magic? OK, the TV version can be edited and sanitised, not to say enhanced, but then there’s the danger that it becomes something remote and just there to be viewed rather than be involved with. The live stuff is warts and all and can be as bad as feared in the posts above. I’ve seen excellent routines using a magic square principle and certainly superb ones with multiple specs and a prediction but both of them take great skill to present. The entertainment factor must be first and foremost, the method and moves, practiced and performed flawlessly of course, waaay back down the line of importance.

User avatar
Mandrake
.
 
Posts: 26877
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: UK (69:AH)

Re: the term magician

Postby Lord Freddie » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:38 pm

Pete Firman is an example of someone whose show is popular with the public. His character and humour are to the forefront as well as the magic. Although people may hate this comparision, people such as David Blaine and Dynamo changed slightly the publics perception that magic is something outdated and only appreciated by children and halfwits.

Most magician fail to see what exactly appeals to a modern audience. I do some shows in environments that are noisy or people are there to eat and socialise (many magicians hate to hear this but the evening doesn't revolve around them). You often have to capture their attention and make them realise you are not doing anything naff and childish, plus people's attention spans these days are much shorter thanks to the presentation in tv, films etc and the propensity for quick moving images.
I think, in general, a modern audience like, initially, visual and easy to follow magic and the tedious stuff (" cut the deck into three piles and take two cards from the top, then remember the number you thought of and then double it and place that many cards on the bottom of each packet") completely bores people.

www.themysticmenagerie.com

"You're like Yoda ..... you'd sell out to a Vodaphone advert if the money was right."
User avatar
Lord Freddie
Elite Member
 
Posts: 3657
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:23 pm
Location: Berkshire

Re: the term magician

Postby Mandrake » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:48 pm

Strange you should say that, I saw Pete's Jiggery Pokery show in Bromsgrove last week, nothing earth shatteringly new in terms of the magic but the presentation was everything. Tossed out deck using a paint can on the end of a telescopic pole to avoid the ‘health and safety’ issues with throwing stuff at the audience meant a good 5 minutes extra material and scope for humour. I knew how he did it, and saw how he did it to a certain extent but that didn’t stop it being a very entertaining routine. The reactions afterwards were as expected, long queue to get autographs and have a chat, most of the conversations being about how much they’d enjoyed the show, when would the next one be and so on. You can’t ask for better than that!

For this reason I reckon all amateurs and wannabes should go see these live shows as often as possible, not to copy or steal the routines but to see how they can be done by professionals who earn a living from performing magic.

User avatar
Mandrake
.
 
Posts: 26877
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: UK (69:AH)

Re: the term magician

Postby Lord Freddie » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:52 pm

Plus many magicians seem more concerned with what other magicians think of them and how technical their tricks are rather than entertaining the public. It's often the simple effects (as Mandrake demonstrated above) that the general public love.

I always try and think back to when I was younger and watched magic on tv and what impressed me the most. I was bored by convulted poker demonstrations them and still am. I find that things like this, which magicians seem to adore, can fall flat if you perform for a table of people who never played cards and poker means nothing to them.

I think connecting with an audience and trying to attach some kind of personal interest in what's going on is always a winner. Otherwise it just becomes sitting watching a show-off which is another view of magicians that some of the public hold.

www.themysticmenagerie.com

"You're like Yoda ..... you'd sell out to a Vodaphone advert if the money was right."
User avatar
Lord Freddie
Elite Member
 
Posts: 3657
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:23 pm
Location: Berkshire

Re: the term magician

Postby daleshrimpton » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:36 pm

I think connecting with an audience and trying to attach some kind of personal interest in what's going on is always a winner. Otherwise it just becomes sitting watching a show-off which is another view of magicians that some of the public hold.


why do you think i grab people out of the audience all the time? I can't stand being up there on my own for long. I just want somebody to join in the fun. :)

you're like Yoda.you dont say much, but what you do say is worth listening to....
Greg Wilson about.... Me.
User avatar
daleshrimpton
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 7186
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:49 am
Location: Burnham, Slough Berkshire

Re: the term magician

Postby V.E. Day » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:10 am

I don't think it is just the unhealthy obsession far too many magicians have with playing cards. I have met numerous magicians, although no where near all, who appear to have incredibly dull and narrow personalities and almost zero charisma.
Yet despite this I read forums like this one where magicians are given the very poor advice that they should "be themselves" when performing.
This may well work for some folk who have great charisma, have adventurous life experiences and can keep an audience engaged regardless of whether they are frying an egg, or showing a card trick or telling some jokes while cutting a lady in half. Some magicians are, but these magicians are few and far between. For most magicians this advice is very poor advice as there may be no razzmatazz in their personalities to keep the audience engaged at all.

Nobody would ever advise a stand-up comedian to "just be themselves", as that approach is prone to failure. Also an actor must seek character to succeed in appearing natural. Adopting a well thought out character is the sensible approach in these performing art disciplines. To me it therefore follows that a magician must realize his or her character to succeed, otherwise they will just come across as a dull person doing tricks (as has been said a few times above).

User avatar
V.E. Day
Senior Member
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:10 am
Location: LONDON, England.

Next

Return to Miscellaneous

Aeternum Servare Secreta UK's Online Magic Tricks and Jokes Shop offers kids and beginner magic tricks and jokes. MagicWorld Magic Shop for Magic Tricks Manufacturer of modern & unique magic apparatus! Visit Magicbox for all the latest and best effects! A web site set up to sell my book, THE STRIPPER DECK, and future magical/mentalism titles. Best prices around! Dude That's Cool Magic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests