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Are there any Svengali decks where the key card as two cards printed on it one at the top and one at the bottom half and half and depending on the end of the deck you use it is different key card value?

Not as far as I'm aware.

I have never seen/heard of anything like this to be honest.

I don't think its available commercially, although you could easily get one custom made.

If you can tell us a bit more regarding its purpose without exposing your trick, we may be able to offer an alternative method.

If its for a force and you need the svengali as part of the method then you could buy two and combine two half decks. This way the top half would contain one force card and the bottom the other. The cards could be riffled or dribbled to with timing, or cut to. For cutting the arrangement would be altered slightly by cutting a quarter of the deck to the bottom (half the top "bank").

Jim

If strictly for a force, and you are not comfortable with a regular force, then I'd suggest a two way forcing deck. But again we need more information to be of more help.

And to answer your question. I too have not heard of the beast you describe.

I have never heard of it although I have seen individual cards like that. I expect that if I have never heard of it then probably nobody else has since I know the svengali deck very well indeed. At first I thought the idea was wonderful since it would be great to show the deck showing the identical cards twice but then I realised how impractical it would be since the display would be very limited and in any event you wouldn't be able to do any other tricks with it.

I agree Mark, if the intention is to display the deck as each card then the method of display is going to look too contrived.

There is another way however, which would give a more loose display. instead of having a horizontal split on the force cards, use a vertical split instead. The cards could be dribbled for the selections - the left hand lifting its portion to face the audience, thumbing the "chosen" card to the right as the spectator is asked to remember it (hiding the necessary). The deck is then revolved and the second selection would be made.
The cards could all be shown as each selection by spreading face up on the table using the method you use in your routine. Two of the regular cards would need to be the same as the force cards, for the face of the spreads.

For stand-up work where no table is available R & S could be used. This would be applied the opposite to the standard Mirage deck - the faces of the regular half and the backs of the force card would have the "treatment". The cards could then be fanned for the display.

I agree its use would probably be limited to the one routine, but if the OP has a good one I'm sure it will be worth getting the deck made up.


Jim

I think anjorno and jim are genious! I'm going to make this deck first, put my name and logo on it, sell them on ebay, and...no not really, I would never do that, such conduct goes against my beliefs and the Magicians Code of ethics. interesting concepts, keep the creative juices flowing

There is a pack like that but it's not a Svengali. It's called a Monte Cristo pack. I imagine if you bought MC packs with different "key" cards you could combine them to make a Svengali version, though I'm not sure why you would want to do that.

Barry

magicofthemind wrote:There is a pack like that but it's not a Svengali. It's called a Monte Cristo pack. I imagine if you bought MC packs with different "key" cards you could combine them to make a Svengali version, though I'm not sure why you would want to do that.

Barry

your reply is not true if you on about the question I said originally. a monte cristo deck shows all different cards at will and then you can force one card not two force cards in 1 with my idea

Yes, but, as I said, you could (at least in theory) make up your pack from two Monte Cristo ones.

now I get it, I was just abit confused as to what you meant.

Hello again,

Now I don't know what a Monti Cristo deck is as I've never seen one. However there was a deck out a few years ago that sounds like what is being described but with an added feature of the backs changing colour as well. I think it was called the Titanic Deck but I may be wrong.
It was this deck that was the inspiration for my idea above.

The initial post is somewhat unclear of the actual intention of the deck. A svengali was specified - which led me to presume that either showing different faces, or displaying the deck as each selection was part of the routine. Otherwise a two way would suffice.

The idea I wrote fills all three criteria. The reason for the svengali principle is it arguably better as a sort of subtle convincer. The cards can be riffle shuffled in the hands and if tilted slightly upwards will give a clear view of different cards being mixed. You could just fan this monti cristo deck I suppose, but I think letting them notice "themselves" and assume the deck is regular can at times be stronger than pointing it out to them.

The deck can be shown as either regular, all one f card or all the other f card.

The R&S idea was included as said above - if the piece is to be used where no tables are available the R&S would allow some nice displays of the deck as each selection by fanning. The method will work "in the hands".

Of course the whole idea may be useless as we have no idea what is actually required of the deck.


Jim

Anjorno wrote:now I get it, I was just abit confused as to what you meant.

Sorry about that. I've just re-read my post and the word "two" is missing before "MC". It also occurred to me in bed that you could mix cards from a Monte Cristo pack with the gimmicked ones from a Svengali.

In the book "202 Methods of Forcing" by Theo Annemann there is a force deck called the Anstro forcing deck which is basically a double decker Svengali deck which can force two different cards by using the peek force.