talkmagic.co.uk

Hi,

Am currently wanting to learn the above but have a question that kinda stops my progression with it.

How the heck do you practice pickpocketing without, well, going out and breaking the law?

Short of asking a friend to stand still for a few hours a day and have me stick my hands here, there and everywhere, ive no idea how to practice. The same goes for watch-taking.

Any suggestions?

Infliction wrote:How the heck do you practice pickpocketing without, well, going out and breaking the law?

I'm not sure about this, but I think that if you steal something with the intent of returning it, and they don't go more than a few feet away from you, you'll be OK.

Make sure either that you can keep them occupied while you have their watch (otherwise they might wander off) or that you only pinch it just before you show it to them.

Kati

Getting caught halfway through taking someones wallet and coming out with the line 'dont worry, im a magician - i was going to give it back' isnt going to go very far.

If you are prepared to make the investment I have been told that some people get hold of a manequin or dressmakers dummy to put different kinds of clothes on and practice.

I did think of that the other day, I drove past a skip with a load of those dummies in them. I might go and permanantly borrow one

If they are in a skip then you must still ask for permission to take one otherwise it is still theft.

Kati is very close with her answer but you do need to know that the audience are aware that you are a magician before you begin to pick pockets. If you do a few tricks first then this will usualy be sufficient.

To prove theft, it has to be proved that there was intent to permanently deprive another person of their property. You musn't let the spec walk away, and you shouldn't walk away for that matter. In most cases you should be OK. Remember, if you're good then people won't know their wallet has gone until you give it back and they then realise that your intentions were honest.

Beware of foreigners though - they may well have different cultures and not view pick pocketing as a legitimate magic trick

Interesting question about the law. I don't think it matters if you say subsequently that you intended to return it nor how far away (at the most) you removed the object. I suspect that your "victim" could report the action to the Police who would be obliged to investigate.

It's something that I've never pondered, nor have I ever dabbled in this art. Maybe other contributors will have comments? I'd be surprised if at least one of our members hasn't a better grasp of the law than I do!

Juan

dat8962 wrote:Kati is very close with her answer

His...I'm Katriel = a boy .

Anyway, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larceny. I'm pretty sure that larceny (= theft) is only a criminal offence when you intend to deprive them of their property permanently. In other words, if you take their wallet and then give it back to them 30 seconds later, you can't be convicted of larceny.

They could sue you for civil damages, of course, but that's another matter and they probably wouldn't win.

So just note what dat says: first make sure that they know you're a magician/entertainer so they don't think you're a thief. Then make sure that they don't leave when you have their wallet. Then, make sure you don't leave. And finally, try not to leave too long a gap between when you take the wallet and when you return it, as this is just inviting them to walk away, and then you'd have the rather embarrassing scene of having to chase after them, yelling "Hoi! Come back! I have your wallet!".

OK, I'm talking too much.

Bye.

Kati

JuanTheMan wrote:I suspect that your "victim" could report the action to the Police who would be obliged to investigate.

Yes, and you could in theory be taken into custody. However, as I said above, you can't be convicted of larceny unless you intended to deprive them of their property permanently.

Just make sure that your victim knows that you're an entertainer...I don't think that they'd be amused if someone they've never seen before goes up to them and hands them their wallet.

Kati

Hi,

Thanks for the replies but im completely new to the whole pickpocketing thing and going straight out onto the streets to learn is suicidal, is it not?

I was just looking for a way practice the basic techniques before going out and doing it to real people.

Ah...it is indeed. Sorry.

'fraid I can't help you on that part. I don't pickpocket myself...

Kati

Sorry about the gender mix up Katriel - I assumed (which I shound not have) that Kati was / is a female name. Anyway, I now know and won't make the same error again.

Larceny is am american term and is generally not used in UK law, certainly not in police law which is what you need to consider in answering this question. There are several points in law in order to prove that a theft has been committed and all of these points are contained within the link given. However, this summary is not complete as it does not contain a reference to an attemtped theft which is an offence in itself and where the biggest risk for a pickpocket lies.

Butterworth's Police Law (one of the main police training references) gives an example of a pickpocket in order to expand on the workings of the Theft Act 1968 Section 3(1).

In terms of proving an attempted theft if you have someon'es wallet in your hand, there is no doubt of you having appropriated property belonging to another person and that even as an entertainer, the possession will probably be seens as having been obtained by a deception. The defence against the attempted theft relies solely to the honesty and circumstances of the appropriation. Of the three legal criteria that can be used as a defence, the only applicable one is to show that the property was appropraited in the belief that you would have had the owners consent if he/she knew of the appropriation and the circumstances of it (in this case as a means to entertain and not permanently deprive).

This provision in the Act is concerned solely with the belief of the accused and applies in the same manner for section 15(1) of the Theft Act 1968 in relation to obtaining property through deception. Given this, an attemtped theft will not be proved but this is why it is important to first ensure that an entertaining pickpocket first makes his presence as a magician / street entertainer known to the audience and then keeps his victim in close proximety at all times as it is these factors, and these alone that will facilitate a defence by demonstrating an honest intention.

I think you've got to let a frined know that you're learning about it, and you need to practise on them. It should be fun to start with, but maybe boring after you've been doing it an hour or so.

Don't forget though, once he/she is cool with you practising on them, you can take the opportunity of stealing their belongings whenever you want. The best way to practise has got to be when they least expect it. So, as I say, as ong as they know you're practising, try it whenever you like! That way, the 'suicidal' part is kicked to the curb.

What's the time, by the way? What do you mean your watch has gone...?

Don't worry...a lot of people mix up my name. I have a GCSE certificate that calls me female!

I submit to the authority of dat ...I was quoting from wikipedia mostly, I'm not that knowledgeable about the law.

Practising on a friend sounds good....

Kati

Always knew that my diploma in criminal law would come in useful some day