NLP

Struggling with an effect? Any tips (without giving too much away!) you'd like to share?

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NLP

Postby Roland » Apr 22nd, '05, 11:10



Well I've been learning magic for about a year now, all around the mentalism field. I certainly no expert but I have learnt all the basics and I am now confident enough developing my own stuff using the techniques I have learnt rather than just repeating the exact trick I have read about.

Obviously in this area of magic I have got involved with using suggestion. Now obvioulsy some of this is forced and some of it is genuine suggestion. However this has lead me to look at learning more about NLP. This is obviously very much a buzz word at the moment as this is what Mr Brown is using (or would like us to think he is using).

However everything I have read about the subject this has been overwhelmingly negative, talking about it being a con, or not really possible.

Is this area worth further investigation? Is it a load of mumbo jumbo?

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Postby katrielalex » Apr 22nd, '05, 12:02

I've never heard of this...what is NLP?

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Postby Roland » Apr 22nd, '05, 12:13

Neuro Linguistic Programming

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Postby Jordan C » Apr 22nd, '05, 12:24

NLP is a psychological concept. Its about using suggestive phrases terms and words to induce thoughts that you require yet that appear to be completely random.

If you check thru some BPS sites (British Psychological Society) then you may find more information on the Psychological aspects of NLP and NVC.

As regards it being all a "con" etc, isnt all mentalism? After all whether your using pneumonics or NLP what you're doing is trying to elicit a pre-determined response. (Pre-determined by you) therefore you are trying to "con" the response out. However a card sleight is also a "con" but it doesnt make it any less of an effect does it. You utilise the sleight/con in conjunction with some smooth patter and misdirection and voila, what you have is a drop dead effect. Its the same with NLP etc. Utilise what you know, add your patter and skills and voila, you have a serious piece of mentalism.

Throughout the history of magic people have always called out saying that theres no skill or ability involved in conning people but as any magician will tell you, there is in fact a great deal of skill in "conning" your audience/participator.

Ignore all calls that NLP is a con and delve deeper. All my bookmarks have gone awol so as oon as I find some of my old sites I'll post them for you.

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Postby Jordan C » Apr 22nd, '05, 12:26

PS. NLP is not something you can simply learn overnight. It is a difficult concept to get right but once you begin to understand and practice practice practice and then practice practice practice some more you will be able to do it. It is very possible but only to dedicated people. It will take longer to learn than a Mercury Card Fold for instance but when you have it down, the responses as you can see from Derren are awesome.

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Postby Roland » Apr 24th, '05, 17:13

Well I have startred reading up on the subject, which has inevitably lead to me learning a bit about hypnosis too - not an area I thought I would even tread into, nor one I am entirely comfortable with to be honest.

I'm going to give this a few months to see how I progress and I will let you know how I get on.

Any links and suggestions of good books greatly appreciated.

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Postby Jordan C » Apr 24th, '05, 18:25

The bible of mentalism is the place to start.

Corindas 12 Steps to Mentalism.

I'll have a think on the others.

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Postby Roland » Apr 24th, '05, 18:46

Thanks. Its 13 steps to mentalism actually :)

I'm a fair way past those books and have a fair understanding of mentalism and was looking for advice more directly related to NLP. These are probably from the sphere of psychology rather than magic.

Magic-related books like 'Psychological subtleties' only scratch the surface of this subject. In Corinda's book he also briefly touches on these phenonema but only explains how some things work and he doesn't ask why, which is what I want to do.

For those who are interested there is an e-book by David Shuttleworth which gives a very basic overview of the subject of NLP and Hypnosis. Go to:
subliminalpersuasion.co.uk

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nlp

Postby hangman1 » Apr 24th, '05, 19:23

you could try steven hellers book -Monsters and magical sticks, or even the structure of magic 1 & 2 and frogs into princes by richard bandler and john grinder - the originators of nlp, these go into great depths. It gets a bit technical but it gives you a thorough explanation.
also kenton kneppers work.
Nlp has got a lot of hype, but it can be a useful tool to create a theatric and emotional hook to your magic if thats your thing.

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Postby Jordan C » Apr 24th, '05, 19:33

Thanks. Its 13 steps to mentalism actually


Oops.... typo!!! LoL!!! :oops:

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Postby AndyHurst » Apr 27th, '05, 00:14

To pull of an effect where the method is just NLP is a tall order. But study of NLP is useful. Take the basics of mirroring and matching. They are techniques that will build rappor with people quickly. Very useful if you table hop for example.

Here's some free NLP tips including info on mirroring...

http://www.devco.demon.co.uk/rapport1.html

Andy.

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Postby Jordan C » Apr 27th, '05, 09:17

Some nice basic tips on Mirroring there. They should help our thread starter.

As mentioned before these are psychological concepts and as such most info will be found on psychological sites.

Try looking up Anchoring too........

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Postby Roland » Apr 27th, '05, 09:34

Yes, thanks, great stuff. I've just been reading how pattern interrupts work, that appears to be one of Derren's techniques.

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nlp

Postby hangman1 » Apr 27th, '05, 13:30

roland, do you have wonder words? If your intrested in heading that way these will be a neccessity.

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Postby Roland » Apr 28th, '05, 03:10

Well something very scary happened today. I went to see an old friend who I hadn't seen for more than a year and didn't know about my foray into mentalism.

I did a number of tricks and she was really being drawn in to the fact that something amazing was going on.

So I thought why not?

I went into a NLP sequence that I had started learning that made her hand stick to the table, then I let her lift her hand but that would mean she forgot her name.

It all worked beautifully, her hand stuck and then right on cue she forgot her name, a tap on the head brought it back instantly.

She was impressed and had no adverse reaction, she wasn't scared by what had happend. I was shaking! And I am still amazed that I could do that just with suggestion. The whole sequence probably didn't last longer than 90 seconds and it was in very quiet conditions with an attentive and receptive subject.

Lots more to learn now, but there is definitely more to this than meets the eye.

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