NLP

Struggling with an effect? Any tips (without giving too much away!) you'd like to share?

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Postby Ted » Jul 1st, '09, 23:49



mrgoat wrote:
Tomo wrote:
mrgoat wrote:NB this could be utterly wrong

Most of it, mate.


Sigh.



Hang on a tick. Tomo is a scientist. I think (without speaking for him) that he is taking issue with your outline of a valid experiment rather than supporting the issues for which you are seeking test results.

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Postby Tomo » Jul 2nd, '09, 00:04

mrgoat wrote:You misunderstand. I'm not interested in studying hypnosis, I'm interested in reading any research published in a respected medical journal that shows NLP or hypnosis to be more effective than a placebo. As yet, I can't seem to find any.

You have to pay for access to proper scientific journals.

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Postby Jobasha » Jul 2nd, '09, 09:54

Well the mail seems to be trying to please.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... sults.html

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Postby mrgoat » Jul 2nd, '09, 14:48

Infinite wrote:I supplied a list of hundreds of clinical trials either completed or in the works for hypnosis and medical studies.


Yet failed to link to ONE SINGLE test that had been published in any respected scientific journals.

Why do you think the BMJ, New Scientist, Nature etc are not picking up on these clinical trials you link to?

I'm curious as to why they are ignoring the evidence. Maybe there is some conspiracy?

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Postby Ted » Jul 2nd, '09, 14:50

I think that possibly you have made your point :)

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Postby mrgoat » Jul 2nd, '09, 14:50

Tomo wrote:
mrgoat wrote:You misunderstand. I'm not interested in studying hypnosis, I'm interested in reading any research published in a respected medical journal that shows NLP or hypnosis to be more effective than a placebo. As yet, I can't seem to find any.

You have to pay for access to proper scientific journals.


I have money. Send me a link to which back issue of the BMJ that contains the proof.

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Postby mrgoat » Jul 2nd, '09, 15:02

Jobasha wrote:Well the mail seems to be trying to please.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... sults.html


The Mail is probably the absolute worst excuse for journalism invented. I put it below The Sun. They were largely responsibly for the disgusting MMM lies.

Also, weight loss through thinking something is going to work? That's been done many times:

"Time after time it has been shown that the psychological power of medicines is a huge part of their overall effectiveness.

But is this specifically a problem for exercise and weight loss?

Well I only know of one good study that covers that question.

The researchers didn’t invent a dummy, sugar pill, but they did the next best thing as Ben Goldacre at Bad Science reports…

Alia Crum and Ellen Langer from Harvard psychology department took 84 female hotel attendants in 7 hotels. They were cleaning an average of 15 rooms a day, each requiring half an hour of walking, bending, pushing, lifting, and carrying.

These women were clearly getting a lot of good exercise, but they didn’t believe it: 66.6% of them reported not exercising regularly, and 36.8% said they didn’t get any exercise at all.

The study abstract reports that one group of the hotel attendants was…

…told that the work they do (cleaning hotel rooms) is good exercise and satisfies the Surgeon General’s recommendations for an active lifestyle. Examples of how their work was exercise were provided.

Subjects in the control group were not given this information.

Although actual behavior did not change, 4 weeks after the intervention, the informed group perceived themselves to be getting significantly more exercise than before.

As a result, COMPARED WITH THE CONTROL GROUP, THEY [THE HOTEL ATTENDANTS WHO WERE TOLD THAT THEIR CLEANING JOB WAS IN FACT 'EXERCISE'] SHOWED A DECREASE IN WEIGHT, blood pressure, body fat, waist-to-hip ratio, and body mass index.

These results support the hypothesis that exercise affects health in part or in whole via the placebo effect."



http://www.drmartinrussell.com/

http://www.badscience.net/2008/08/think-yourself-thin/

The way the mind and the body relate is astounding.

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Postby mrgoat » Jul 2nd, '09, 15:04

Ted wrote:I think that possibly you have made your point :)


:)

mrgoat
 

Postby Gary Dickson » Jul 3rd, '09, 13:20

mrgoat wrote:They were largely responsibly for the disgusting MMM lies.


Come on, I know the monkey demon thing was a bit far fetched, but there's a lot of usable material in that book. :lol:

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Re: NLP

Postby johnnyryanUK » Aug 27th, '12, 00:30

after reading rintu bansus black book on NLP i think yes some of it is common sense and secondly using and is a load of rubbish and is using and a load and is..... u get the point!!

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Re: NLP

Postby magic4children » Aug 28th, '12, 11:39

Roland,
Interesting thread, thank you. I am a practising psychotherapist and a magician. Psychotherapy in the UK is governed by professional bodies such as the BPS and the BACP with accreditation requiring a professional qualification, regular clinical supervision and adherence to a strict code of ethics. The years of study and the code of ethics are in place to protect clients and offer a transparent complaints procedure and accountability for poor or perceived mal practice and supervision is an opportunity for counsellors and psychotherapists to have their practice regularly reviewed to ensure no harm is done. I feel strongly that the use of psychological techniques used out of context and in the hands of a novice could at some point do harm and that without proper training that harm may well go unnoticed by the practitioner.
Mentalism is a fascinating branch of magic but it does remain that, a branch of magic. We learn in the theory that a magician is an actor playing the part of a magician and our job is to fool and entertain the audience, not ourselves. Any Mentalist relies on the same skills we hold dear as magicians such as misdirection, the one ahead principle, equivoque, and peeking, palming, switching and specialised gimmicks to portray the illusion of mind reading apparent thought control. Often we may offer a pseudo explanation of how the effect was accomplished by suggestion that was planted by apparent signs, signals etc. that the layman may have been in contact with.
This all makes for great theatre and adds to the mystery, all credence to Derren Brown who has used this technique with great effectiveness and popularised its use. There is no need to put the outcome of an effect in jeopardy by hoping the suggestion worked or that the chain of specially chosen words were understood and imprinted a message on the spectator’s brain, we have a wealth of tools at our disposal to take the outcome away from might work and firmly into will work.
You mentioned your experiment with your friend with her hand on the table and forgetting her name. There are a number of explanations for this action by her and we cannot rule out that one of those explanations is that she was playing along so that you were not disappointed. It is also possible that she is susceptible to suggestion and did experience her hand sticking and memory loss; and that this may have been a form of Ericksonian Hypnosis. The dilemma is that if she was just playing along, then it was you who were being fooled not her and if she was being manipulated by suggestion, you were operating without insurance or indemnity protection, without an understanding of the underlying theory and without the protection of a professional body, all which could at some time lead to litigation.
This is not a “don’t do that” message, as you are clearly free to do as you feel is acceptable for you, this message is more to highlight that there are dangers and, to be aware is to be armed.
In practice, a full assessment is done before undertaking any guided suggestion work and there are incidences where practitioners will not work with certain clients as it could be damaging to that client. There are common medical conditions that can be brought on by guided suggestion and there are certain medications that clients may be taking that can also cause complications when working with certain techniques.
In closing, It is admirable that you have such a keen interest in psychotherapy, may I suggest contacting your local university as there are regular “taster sessions” called concepts courses offered that give a foundation understanding of psychotherapy. That’s how I started.

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