Short Readings: Need help

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Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby mark lewis » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:16 pm



Boris wrote:In the Top Hat facebook group you'll find a downloadable PDF with an article written by Tony Black. It gives details for performing a 3 minute reading. You'd do well to read that article. You can get the PDF at the URL below.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1670559619838521/files/

At the bottom, you will find issue #9. That's the one you want.


This is a very well known stock reading known as the Forer reading. Lee Earle once wrote a small book on it for the use of magicians. It is a fake reading where you say the same thing to everybody. And it is as old as the hills. I really don't like those types of fraudulent readings. What are you going to say to the next person that has a reading. Recite the same c*** (not the best)? People discuss their readings with each other and in an entertainment situation may well overhear what you are saying. And people often want to record the readings on their phone and if they play it back to their friends who have already had a reading you are sunk. It is a fraudulent reading and not the genuine article. The best way to read palms is to do it for real.

I would advise our original poster to avoid trickery such as peeks and other flim flammery and concentrate on what he knows best. In other words palmistry. Just do the head line, the heart line, the fate line and the life line. That will be enough for five minutes if you cut out a lot of the information. Just chatter for a minute or so about each line. That is all you need.

Let me recommend an excellent book which deals with entertainment readings only. In other words short readings of the type under discussion. It is called Entertainment as Readings by Richard Webster. This will tell our new member exactly what to do. He says he is worried about his financial situation. He doesn't seem to realise he is on the verge of a financial goldmine. These short readings where you are simply hired and paid a fee at an event can be vastly more profitable and easier to do than the longer serious sessions.

I would recommend he discard the walking around stuff where he simply does tricks. The trouble is that although this is very common entertainment you are in a position of weakness since you have to approach them rather than the other way round. And it seems you don't have the experiene to do it anyway. You are far better off sitting in one quiet corner and do reading after reading.

Yes, I know the feeling that you think your head is going to explode with one reading after another. This is partly because of the problems that you already mentioned and secondly I suspect you are not taking a break. Richard Webster recommends in these situations that you take a 5 minute break every hour and you will find the booker will readily agree to this.

I will now look at your original post more thoroughly and see what I can advise regarding your concerns. But remember that just doing palm readings will make you more popular at the event than even the best magician who is there. Nobody will line up to see a card trick but they will certainly do so to have their palm read. You can probably charge more money than the magician and be invited to work longer and be paid extra for it.

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Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby mark lewis » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:35 am

First let me say that I do NOT recommend you go around doing tricks in a walk around situation. I know it will be easier on your mind and less stressful for you. But I feel it is not a good plan because it sounds like your talents and experience lie in palmistry rather than wandering around from table to table combining tricks (which is what mentalism really is) and palmistry. Nobody will be the slightest bit interested in the mentalism but everyone on the table will harass you to read their palms so you will end up doing 30 readings anyway!

Now I didn't realise that you are only being hired to do 90 minutes or so. That is NOTHING when sitting at a table reading palms! I have gone out of my mind when I have been booked for 5 hours or so to do readings. I refuse to do it nowadays for that length of time or alternatively I want a hell of a lot of money for it! Three hours is about average.

Now as to the specific problems you mention. You don't require any dialogue with the sitter. I hope you are not doing any of that so called "cold reading" nonsense where you ask people questions like the fake mediums on TV do. Quite frankly I do a lot of psychic fairs and the readings last 20 to 30 minutes and I discourage too much dialogue with the clients because there are other people waiting. If they book a long reading at my office I am in a far more relaxed situation and can allow some dialogue. Still, my main purpose is to impart information rather than take up time with unnecessary conversation.

As for feedback all you have to do is be good. You will get reaction all the time from people gasping at your accuracy if you know what you are doing. And people will sit down and say something like:" Oh, Mildred said you were fantastic!" If you are not getting this then there is something wrong somewhere.

To sum all this up I can assure you that straight palm readings are the way to go. However, I have in the past done an hour of normal walk around close up magic and while doing so tell everyone that later I shall be in a quiet corner to read their palms. It is a fantastic combination. Alas I don't think you are ready for it yet. Stick to the palm readings for the moment.

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Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby Lady of Mystery » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:41 am

Thanks Mark, there's some fantastic advise there :)

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Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby reader80 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:44 am

kartoffelngeist, Boris, Lady of Mystery,bmat &mark lewis: Thanks for the support and suggestions.

Anjorno: I do palm readings without any magic/ mentalism value add currently. I learnt traditional palmistry from my grandfather and then used a few books to supplement my knowledge. I do have a desire to add mentalism routines to my palmistry as stated in my previous posts. But I introduce myself as a Palm reader not magician/ mentalist. Sorry if that is not acceptable to professional magicians/ mentalists. But I do not pose as medium etc. as clarified if that helps.

Boris: I will check the pdf on weekend, thanks,

Lady of Mystery: Thanks for the Voodini suggestion as it is exactly the type of material I'm seeking,

kartoffelngeist: Thanks for the Docc Hilford reference (need to do some serious studying!)

bmat: I was actually after some readymade routines but I guess I need to customize routines to fit my requirements as pointed by you. Thanks for the reality check,

Mark Lewis: Thanks for taking the time and sharing your experience gained evidently through years of hard work.

I was thinking of learning some peeks etc. to add some theatrical drama to plain palm reading. I probably do not have the self-discipline of sticking to one minute / line as was pointed out. If I catch the sitter starting to agree to whatever I'm saying (even non-verbal gestures are easy to catch) then I tend to expand on that point and that hogs up the entire 5 mns of reading. At the end I get the impression that I did not deliver a well-rounded reading which should cover all aspects even though the sitter agreed to most of what I said. It just feels like an abrupt ending to a short reading (at least to me).

I tried to check the Richard Webster book but I did not find it on Amazon (I got Revealing Hands by Webster. Can I use this one instead?). I was primarily interested in short readings as I felt that I could generate some leads for longer readings through them at events. If the short readings are more profitable and easier than the longer readings then I will stick to them as per your advice.

I do not have any walk around experience so could not anticipate the dynamics as pointed by you. I guess readings after readings sitting in a corner are the way to go though it feels like a grind right now.

I did feel like taking a break but a queue was getting long and I felt that I would rather get over with the lot sooner rather than later. I will take the break for 5 mns and see if that helps in my next gig.

I guess that if I have to do 30 palm readings anyway even if I combine mentalism with readings then I will just stick to readings. I just felt that if I combined some walk around mentalism with palmistry I could charge more money selling a walk around gig. It was only a theory but your experience is diametrically opposite so I will encash it and avoid reinventing the wheel.

I do not necessarily depend on dialogue and can deliver a reading to sitters who don't say a word as their non-verbal feedback is enough to zero in on their area of interest. It’s just that in long readings I can spend some time developing rapport and encouraging a dialogue helps that cause. But I guess it’s not that necessary particularly for short readings. I just hope that people find my short readings just as accurate as my longer readings by following the suggestions provided.

I think that I should have done some homework before raising my queries regarding the short format though. In fact Jermay developed his routine from a palmistry idea. I just got caught up in its application for group act and completely overlooked the fact that it can always be used for a single sitter as well.

I'm also considering buying Scott Creasey's Number 5 routine as the description seems to fit my criteria for walk around routines. I may have to pick up some tarot/ numerology skills but I’m game if it meets my objectives. Can somebody who owns it verify if it is suitable for a group act in walk around gigs for me?

Thanks for the suggestions again...

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Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby mark lewis » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:54 pm

You know, it also occurred to me that Chinese Numerology is a very good possibility. It is tailor made for short readings and as everyone's date of birth is different it avoids the problem mentioned by the gentleman that you end up saying the same thing to everybody. Mind you, with genuine palmistry every hand is different too so there is no need to repeat yourself here either.

There is an example of Chinese Numerology on the video I showed earlier. Or here is a promotional clip of my work. I did a lecture on this stuff in London in 2010 and some of our members were actually present. You can actually order the DVD from me direct. It also has a large portion of the DVD describing palmistry too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4yBOE9kUj0

Oh, and while I am at it here is the other DVD from the same lecture. I can supply this too. This time on the Tarot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqRDs-yZgGc

I never thought that the Tarot was suitable for brief 5 minute readings but Richard Webster does give info on how that can be done. The trouble with Chinese Numerology is that it might be a little harder to sell since the booker will never have heard of it. However, everyone has heard of palmistry and since reader 80 is already proficient in it I think it may well be the best way to go.

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Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby Lady of Mystery » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:50 pm

A single card reading can be a great way to do a quick tarot reading, I've done this quite a few times in a walk around setting.

When doing short readings I don't really think that it's possible to do a well rounded reading, just stick on a single aspect of the sitters life. You don't have to go into huge detail, just give them enough to satisfy their interest and send them away with a smile on their face and a warm glow in their heart :). If you're working at a dinner then just work your way around the tables between and after courses, if it's a mix and mingle type of event then hang around the bar and start chatting to people. Once the word gets around that you're doing readings, you'll find that you'll have plenty of people coming to find you.

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Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby mark lewis » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:53 pm

If you introduce yourself as a palm reader you won't have much of a chance to do any mentalism. Everyone will want their palm read and that will be the end of that. I would suggest that if you really insist on doing mentalism suggest to the booker that you will do it for an hour or so and then you will set up elsewhere to do the palm readings. You will get twice the money that the other magicians do as you are offering twice the service. Just tell the people at each table you will be doing palm readings LATER. They will then pay more attention to your mentalism.

My only worry is that your mentalism may not be up to par just yet.

Mind you I learned a long time ago that magic is a better fit with palm reading than mentalism is counter intuitive though it may be. But that takes a lot of practice and experience too.

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Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby mark lewis » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:59 pm

Revealing Hands is an excellent book on palmistry but it is not what we are talking about. I probably have the title of the entertainment book wrong but once I find it among all my books I will let you know what it is. In the meantime I suspect you will find this essay very useful:

http://www.deceptionary.com/ftp/RWebste ... ertain.pdf" target="_blank" target="_blank

In the meantime practice doing readings where you cut things down to five minutes. Even I find five minutes difficult and I speak fast. It often runs into ten minutes. Seven minutes can be fine. Get a timer and read an imaginary hand or a palm print you find on the internet.

If you find that you tend to do longer than five minutes it might actually work in your favour as at the end of your gig there will still be a ton of people left waiting. Tell them to hang on for five minutes while you find the booker. Tell him or her the situation that there are still people waiting but you will be willing to stay on longer if they pay you more. Sometimes it works.

The magician will be sent home as well they should be but the palmist will often be asked to stay longer. The magicians may well enjoy themselves more but your joy will be when you count the money which will be more than theirs.

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Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby reader80 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:08 pm

Mark,

I will stick to palm readings only. I do not have any experience in walk around mentalism as of now.

I will also check for Readings as Entertainment by Richard Webster. Thanks for the essay. But contrary to his experience I confess that I also like the longer readings. I guess people somehow understand nowadays that palm readings is more about revealing personality than predicting future etc.

I will definitely practice giving short readings for about 5/7 mns. I guess just discussing your concerns with people who have been actually doing readings helps in resolving self doubts and restoring self confidence. Thanks for guiding me in the right direction.

Regards,

reader80
 

Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby reader80 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:09 pm

My posts are not seen in real time. There is a time lag between posting and the actual appearance of my posting...

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Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby mark lewis » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:53 pm

Oh, one more thing (until the next one anyway) as I do keep thinking of things all the time. One advantage of Chinese Numerology is that not only is it short it gives you the opportunity to do some advertising since you do it on the back of your business card. They will lose a leaflet or a business card but not if you have their chart on the back. They will always keep it.

I know this from psychic fairs. All the psychics give out flyers and brochures to the attendees, as I do. However, at the end of the day inevitable there are dozens of these leaflets and promotional material left behind on the table. The psychics gather them up rather than waste them. However, I was always puzzled as to why there were none for me or very few at any rate. It then dawned on me that the reason they did not leave mine behind was because on the back of the flyer I would do the Chinese Numerology for them with their own chart.

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Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby Mandrake » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:37 pm

reader80 wrote:My posts are not seen in real time. There is a time lag between posting and the actual appearance of my posting...

That's a security feature, the first five posts have to be approved before they are visible.

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Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby mark lewis » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:40 am

reader80 wrote:Mark,

I will also check for Readings as Entertainment by Richard Webster. Thanks for the essay. But contrary to his experience I confess that I also like the longer readings. I guess people somehow understand nowadays that palm readings is more about revealing personality than predicting future etc.


Oh, Richard has done many hour long readings too. The very first book I ever purchased from him way back in 1987 was on how to do full length readings. I have done many full length readings lasting an hour. Richard used to combine palmistry and numerology in the one hour sessions devoting equal time to each. Of course the limitation with that is that I find it restricts repeat readings since when a client comes again the lines on the hand and the numbers remain the same so of course you are repeating the same information. I do of course realise that the lines on the hand change over time but it is a very slow process. And the numbers are ALWAYS the same!

And of course both palmistry and numerology are very general and I feel an entire hour of that is a little too much. And of course people DO want to know the future. This is where the Tarot comes in as it tends to be more specific and event based. And ideal for repeat sessions since the cards change every time. In fact I have even used different tarot decks if someone sees me several times since different decks have different meanings. Furthermore it gives the reader a chance to use his intuition. And that is all that psychic ability really is. Heightened intuition.

My structure for the hour length readings are that I start by reading the palm and it only lasts ten minutes or so. It helps me to tune in to the person's personality and their wishes and desires. In fact, by the time I read their palm I know all about them. Or most of what I need to know anyway. Then I do the I Ching which is a Chinese method of divination. This tells me even more about the client and it only lasts about 5 minutes or so. Then the most important part of the reading comes up and that is the Tarot which takes around 30 minutes when I do it. Finally I spend another 10 minutes or so doing numerology.

This structure I devised I find very useful for two reasons. First it gives the reading more variety and as a result keeps the client interested and secondly I find it helps me know if I am on the right track. For example if I see something in a person's hand and later see the same thing in the Tarot I know I am on the right track.

I remember when I first met Richard Webster in person I told him about this structure. He seemed mildly surprised and said, "Oh, you do everything!"

At psychic fairs (and I have done hundreds of them) the readings take somewhere between 20 to 30 minutes and for the entertainment events under discussion I suppose that although I try to keep to five minutes it often goes to about 7. Sometimes it even goes to 10 and that is far too long but occasionally a client won't let me stop!

I have been doing this stuff for 30 years and it scares me to realise how long I have been at it. It seems like I only started yesterday. Mind you I have been doing magic for nearly SIXTY years! It frightens the hell out of me.

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Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby reader80 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:15 pm

Lady of Mystery: Thanks for your inputs on short readings. I was clearly worried that I could not cover (the highlights of) all aspects on the hand in 5 mns. As stated earlier, I was not willing to let go of the aspect that resonated with the sitter and this eventually took the entire 5 mns. I will try to stick to a minute per line but if the sitter shows interest in any particular aspect then I will expand on it. It may not be a well-rounded reading (for me) but if expanding on something that resonates with the sitter is a better overall experience (for the sitter) than providing a short summary of all aspects then I will stick with it. After the 5 mns I may just hurry with the remaining lines in a couple of minutes for the sake of completeness (to me). I’m not going to bother about the readings going to 7/8 mns in future if it makes the reading more effective.

Mark: I did not even think of repeat readings till I read your post today! Of course once a sitter gets a palm reading there is no motivation for him to come back any time soon for the same palm reading again. The lines of palm may change but they don’t change fast enough for warranting a palm reading every 4/6 months...
I just felt that palm readings may be general but also a bit lighter and fun for both me and sitter. Tarot conjures up a much more serious image and may make the reading very serious as you are expected to provide answers about sitter’s issues. Of course I have never studied Tarot so my opinion amounts to absolutely nothing here. But it may be one of the reasons why Webster preferred short readings of the type I’m looking forward to master…

But I admit it is serious food for thought. You take all the efforts of impressing a sitter with a short reading first for (hopefully) getting an opportunity for a longer reading afterwards. Some sitters are bound to be impressed and opt for the longer readings. If you don’t have some sort of mechanism for repeat readings you cannot cater to sitters after going through all the trouble of acquiring them.

I will concentrate on shorter readings for now. And I may spend some time on tarot instead of searching for mentalism routines.

Regards,

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Re: Short Readings: Need help

Postby mark lewis » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:52 pm

I have found my copy of the Richard Webster entertainment book. The title is indeed "Readings as Entertainment". It is just what you need. However, for some reason there is hardly anything about it on the internet. I imagine you will have to get it from Richard direct. Unfortunately I don't have his contact information to hand. I expect if you dig deep enough you will find it though. Or perhaps someone else here will tell you.

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