Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

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Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby Tap » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:48 pm



...probably!

Since this is for odd topics, I have a large collection of tarot cards, and I've only tried reading a few times. I just love cards. Studying poker/playing card routines with 52/54.I'm naturally curious about using the larger, obviously different cards for magic, close-up, etc. I know this sounds weird, but hear me out...

I'm definitely not saying create a reading, or use them for psychic mumbo-jumbo. Have fun if you're into that, but what I mean is using them as an extension to normal SoH, self-working, etc. kinds of playing card tricks. I'd like to hear about mixing & matching (since playing cards came from the same place tarocchi did), card tricks/illusions with JUST tarot cards, or whatever.

For example, many times we set up decks to tell a story as we count words out, creating a stack layout. Well, tarot cards can get very colorful and have definite imagery that would work a lot better than pip cards in a story, right? Tarot even has aces! What about a routine that is supposed to be a 'reading', but ends up being a trick in the process?

So what are you doing now with tarot cards?
Can you do SoH with such big cards?
How would palming work?!
Who among you have taken the challenge of these decks head on and done something really unique?

TIA!

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Re: Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby JohnnyMac » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:37 pm

And you can always force the Death card on someone who's been giving you a hard time.

Only joking :-)

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Re: Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby Tap » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:38 pm

Yeah,

I have low expectations that this thread will gain any attention. Most people avoid the topic completely. But the cards (minors) are perfect for any 'working' card routines/illusions as they just have an extra 'court card' for each suit-and that can be removed if necessary. You still have the familiar 52!

I know this would be a gas, but perhaps the formal magic community 'poo-poos' it...

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Re: Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby magicofthemind » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:12 am

If you have access to The Linking Ring, have a look at my effect Celtic Cross in the January 1996 issue. It's really a close-up effect, but here's what it looked like when I presented it on a small stage during a lecture:

Image

Barry

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Re: Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby Lady of Mystery » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:23 am

I personally would never use tarot cards for magic, but then I'm also a reader and would feel quite dirty if I did. That's just my opinion though, I don't see any reason from a practical point of view why you couldn't and with a bit of thought and research into the cards, you could probably come up with quite a fun routine.

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Re: Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby magicofthemind » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:13 am

I occasionally use them for "mentalism" rather than magic. The stronger images are easier to pick up psychically ...

I certainly would never use them for card tricks - but I don't do card tricks anyway.

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Re: Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby mark lewis » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:06 pm

Lady of Mystery wrote:I personally would never use tarot cards for magic, but then I'm also a reader and would feel quite dirty if I did. That's just my opinion though, I don't see any reason from a practical point of view why you couldn't and with a bit of thought and research into the cards, you could probably come up with quite a fun routine.


I am more or less in agreement with this. I have done thousands upon thousands of tarot readings and somehow it doesn't feel right to use them for magic tricks. It almost feels sacrilegious to me. However, I suppose if you don't do readings and have the same feelings about them then I suppose there is nothing to stop you. One thing I will say and I am absolutely adamant about this. If you actually DO readings then you should NEVER under any circumstances use trickery of any kind during the session. I can never understand magicians who advocate centre tears, marked tarot cards billet switching etc;. Completely unnecessary, stupid and even fraudulent.

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Re: Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby black hart » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:47 am

JohnnyMac wrote:And you can always force the Death card on someone who's been giving you a hard time.

Only joking :-)


Ah! Yes, I've done that.

Tarot cards can be used for 'magic'. It just depends on how you want to present the 'effect'. The general public view playing cards very different than they view tarot cards, which is great when you are presenting psychic effects, weird magic or magic in a bizarre way. Produce tarot cards and already your audience have a different expectation, this puts you in a good position. People may even be a little frightened of tarot cards.

Perhaps it would not be the best idea to follow your Dippy Duck routine with something like Curse of the Black Death, but if you are planning that then you really need to re-examine how you put your presentations together!

As for forcing the Death card...we were running a corporate Haunted House Night at a country house hotel and one of the guests was a real pain. He announced that he was an amateur magician and kept interrupting the performances saying how he knew how any particular effect was done. It was disruptive and the other guests were getting a little annoyed with him as he was spoiling it for everyone.

It came to the part of the evening where we did tarot readings and I told my crew that I was going to do his reading. I got him to my table first and he said to me, "I don't believe in all this rubbish, so you can tell me exactly what you see in the cards, it won't bother me!" So I got him to mix up the tarot cards (you don't talk of shuffling them) and to chose one at random then turn it over. Guess which one it was, yes, the Death card. I looked him straight in the eye and said, "Well there' no point in carrying on is there, as you are going to die! Next please."
He went a white as a sheet and we had no more interruptions from him that evening.

Yes, I forced the card on him and for all of his 'I know how the tricks are done', he didn't clock the force happening. Not something I would normally do of course but in the circumstances...

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Re: Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby magicofthemind » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:06 am

When I performed "Celtic Cross", I always forced a positive card, usually The Sun.

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Re: Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby mark lewis » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:51 pm

black hart wrote:
JohnnyMac wrote:And you can always force the Death card on someone who's been giving you a hard time.

Only joking :-)


Ah! Yes, I've done that.

Tarot cards can be used for 'magic'. It just depends on how you want to present the 'effect'. The general public view playing cards very different than they view tarot cards, which is great when you are presenting psychic effects, weird magic or magic in a bizarre way. Produce tarot cards and already your audience have a different expectation, this puts you in a good position. People may even be a little frightened of tarot cards.

Perhaps it would not be the best idea to follow your Dippy Duck routine with something like Curse of the Black Death, but if you are planning that then you really need to re-examine how you put your presentations together!

As for forcing the Death card...we were running a corporate Haunted House Night at a country house hotel and one of the guests was a real pain. He announced that he was an amateur magician and kept interrupting the performances saying how he knew how any particular effect was done. It was disruptive and the other guests were getting a little annoyed with him as he was spoiling it for everyone.

It came to the part of the evening where we did tarot readings and I told my crew that I was going to do his reading. I got him to my table first and he said to me, "I don't believe in all this rubbish, so you can tell me exactly what you see in the cards, it won't bother me!" So I got him to mix up the tarot cards (you don't talk of shuffling them) and to chose one at random then turn it over. Guess which one it was, yes, the Death card. I looked him straight in the eye and said, "Well there' no point in carrying on is there, as you are going to die! Next please."
He went a white as a sheet and we had no more interruptions from him that evening.

Yes, I forced the card on him and for all of his 'I know how the tricks are done', he didn't clock the force happening. Not something I would normally do of course but in the circumstances...

Keith Hart


That is a wonderful story and I can appreciate the motivation. Alas it is an option that would never be available to me and I would have to handle the idiot in another way. Effective though it may be it would be a breach of my ethical standards. You never know how such a prediction can affect someone. It could even in some cases bring on the event because of the self fulfilling prophecy aspect. We have a duty never to frighten a client or predict negativity whether they say they do not believe in what you are doing or not. And just because they say they don't believe doesn't make it necessarily so. Even the most ardent sceptics have a tiny belief at some level. After all he wouldn't have gone as white as a sheet if this was not the case.

I would seriously advise you never to go that route again.

I personally would have done the reading and he would have loved it. When you win people over to your side they lose interest in heckling you.

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Re: Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby magicofthemind » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:06 am

black hart wrote: I looked him straight in the eye and said, "Well there's no point in carrying on is there, as you are going to die! Next please."
He went a white as a sheet


I recommend that you read Scared to Death by J C Barker. Never, ever predict someone's death. It could kill them.

Barry

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Re: Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby black hart » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:48 am

Hello Mark

It wasn't something I do often or lightly, and you certainly have to make an experienced judgement on it, and believe me I have lots of experience, you would really have to have been there to appreciate the circumstances. Also I told him he was going to die - and you know what? So will you, and so will I, and so will everyone reading this. What I did not tell him was when or how - that would have been irresponsible.

I was doing tarot readings in a nightclub once and one chap, in his late 20's, came up to my table and he looked very worried. I started the reading and I 'read' to him that something was bothering him. He told me that he had his tarot read when he was in Australia a couple of years ago, by a friend of a friend (not a 'professional' reader). She had told him that he was going to die in agony in a fire before he was 30! Now THAT was a stupid and irresponsible thing to do.

Fortunately he came to me for a reading and I was experienced enough to help him. He said that the reader had seen the Death card in the spread. I told him that there was nothing about such things in the cards he had chosen from my tarot deck, indeed there was a bright future predicted with The World and Strength (both forced by the way). I explained that the reader in Australia had misinterpreted the cards. He was a long way from home and feeling home-sick, the Death card had represented the 'death' of his old self as he matured and grew as a person, not his physical death. The other cards had picked up on his home-sickness and the Australian friend of a friend had simply misinterpreted the cards.

Well, I could see the relief in his face, he walked away from my table with his head held high. I had to refuse his many offers of a drink for the rest of the evening.

You can read some of my anecdotes about doing tarot readings in my Black Book Three - Tales of a Wandering Tarot Reader, available only from Black Artefacts http://www.blackhart.co.uk/books.html

The Black Hart

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Re: Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby mark lewis » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:20 pm

I know we are all going to die and at my age I really don't wish to be reminded of it! I also know that you told him the literal truth. However, it is the implication that it was going to happen soon that I find troubling. The mind affects the body and telling someone, no matter how obnoxious they are, that they are going to die and implying that it is going to be sooner rather than later, is to my mind a mistake and some would say an irresponsible one. I believe the thought lingering in the subconscious mind at worst can bring the death on or at best linger in the subconscious mind for years on end as you have just shown in your other anecdote.

Most magicians who do readings do short entertainment sessions and of course there is nothing wrong with that. However, I do very serious sessions lasting 30 minutes to an hour and know very well how readings can affect people. You can do a lot of good or you can do a lot of harm.

You are walking an ethical tightrope when doing readings. Don't fall off.

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Re: Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby mark lewis » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:22 pm

magicofthemind wrote:
black hart wrote: I looked him straight in the eye and said, "Well there's no point in carrying on is there, as you are going to die! Next please."
He went a white as a sheet


I recommend that you read Scared to Death by J C Barker. Never, ever predict someone's death. It could kill them.

Barry


Agreed. And I haven't even read the book.

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Re: Tarot Card Tricks? Are you nuts?

Postby black hart » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:19 pm

mark lewis wrote:Most magicians who do readings do short entertainment sessions and of course there is nothing wrong with that. However, I do very serious sessions lasting 30 minutes to an hour and know very well how readings can affect people. You can do a lot of good or you can do a lot of harm.
.


Hello Mark,

Do you really believe that your readings are real and predict the future of your audience, and do they believe that you are able to predict their future?

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