Q&A with Magician and Card Handling Expert Roberto Giobbi
Who is Roberto Giobbi?
If you've spent any time doing serious study of card magic, you will almost certainly have come across the respected name of Roberto Giobbi. Born in Switzerland on 1st May 1959, Giobbi brings a wealth of experience and expertise to the world of magic. Among his accomplishments is the fact that twice he was named Vice World Champion in Card Magic at the World Championship of Magic.
But Mr Giobbi is especially regarded highly as a result of his ground-breaking Card College series of books, which teaches the fundamentals of card magic. Most experts will agree that these influential volumes are among the very best tools available to develop sound technique and to master the essentials of card magic, and you'll often see them among the very first and best books recommended on the subject. These are considered to be the most widely translated magic books in history. But besides these, he's also written numerous other popular books about magic, with over 50 books to his credit, as well as many articles and essays, many of which have been published in influential magazines.
But besides being appreciated for his written work, Mr Giobbi is also well regarded for his ability in teaching magic. He's created several videos, notably several companions to his Card College books, and recordings of lectures designed to provide magic instruction. To confirm that he's a real scholar, you only need to consider his academic credentials: he has a background that includes skills in mathematics, science, literature, and linguistics, and he's fluent in several different languages. With these remarkable resume, it is no surprise that Roberto Giobbi's teaching materials are popular with magicians around the globe, and he is much demanded and appreciated for his fantastic lectures. He coaches and consults many professionals, and his expertise in variety of disciplines gives him a very valuable and insightful perspective that few can match.
I've corresponded with Mr Giobbi about card magic on numerous occasions, and he's always been a true gentleman in every way. When I asked if he'd be willing to conduct an interview about playing cards and magic, he kindly agreed. Given his extensive experience in card magic, and his expertise with pasteboards, he's well-placed to share some interesting observations and important insights about playing cards. So I'm happy to hand you over to Mr Giobbi, and let's learn what he has to share with us! Some of these answers come from one of his e-books, which we'll mention later, while others he has provided directly and appear in this article for the very first time.
The Interview
General background
For those who don't know anything about you, what can you tell us about yourself and your background?
I was born in Basle, Switzerland, on the 1st of May 1959, from Italian parents who emigrated from Piedmont. Although I started in High School with mathematics and natural sciences, I soon found out that my talents were in languages, so I went to the University of Basel to study literature and linguistics.
This was an unintentional smart move, because it ultimately made me fluent in six languages. This turned out to be a great asset when in 1988, after winning FISM for the first time (1991 would be the second time), I turned professional. I had finished my studies in 1984 at the Translator & Interpreter School of Basel. From 1984 to 1988 I managed the translator’s department of Autodesk, the inventor of AutoCAD, the first computer-aided design software. In 1988, when I left my safe and lucrative job, there were only two or three people in Switzerland doing magic professionally. Now, almost 30 years later, there are dozens, and several tell me that I inspired them to take that step. In 1990 the MRS (Magischer Ring der Schweiz) held their first national competition, and as the winner of all categories I was the very first to receive their Grand Prix. This reminds me of a comment my friend Pit Hartling made after one of my lectures: "You speak like an old man, without being one."
In the announcement to his Genii Bash Convention in 2012 Richard Kaufman wrote: "Roberto has become one of the most sought-out voices on magic and his lectures have grown near legendary." This certainly pleased me, because studying the underpinnings of magic, treating it as an academic discipline besides as an art, has always captured my fancy.
I’ve started giving lectures at an early age, with much innocence and naiveté, but always with lots of passion and enthusiasm. A recent count revealed that I’ve given fifty-six completely different lectures in the past forty years, mostly on specific topics. This won’t even include the many presentations I’ve given on the occasion of the "Jornadas Cartomagicas de El Escorial", the yearly get-together of the Escuela Magica de Madrid, a school of thought in magic. The latter was founded by Juan Tamariz, together with Ascanio, in Madrid in 1971, inspired by André Breton’s Surrealist Manifesto and to this day remains magic’s only Think Tank. I’ve been one of only forty members since ca. 1980 and am glad I could contribute over decades to their superb magazine La Circular. In the meantime I’ve written essays and columns for over fifty magic magazines, including fourteen consecutive years for Genii - The International Conjuror’s Magazine.
Most readers will probably know me for my five volumes of Card College, which have quite unintentionally become the most widely translated magic books in history. However, my heart is also attached to the several other books, which carry in them a part of myself. Meanwhile I face the reality of having over 80 publications to my credit, including their translation into eight languages; this comprises a few electronic works, such as E-books and DVDs, with quite a few more in preparation.
Although as of today I wish I could make a living from writing, lecturing and coaching, alas, it is hardly possible, in spite of being one of the few best-selling authors in magic. I still enjoy performing very much, mostly for an international clientele due to my linguistic talents, and as such I have visited over 50 countries around the globe. I’m glad I’ve always made it a point that my clients pay one or two extra nights, so I could see the place, visit with local magicians and enjoy a good meal in town, gastronomy being one of my interests.
Part of my life was captured in “Il giardino dei giochi segreti”, a 50-minute documentary by Swiss TV, and you can find it on the Internet [link]. As part of my work for laypeople I also give interdisciplinary talks and workshops for industry managers on creativity, communication, and presentation. However, I feel particularly honored that magicians from China, the New World and all over Europe are now coming to seek out my advice and taking coaching lessons.
What do you currently do for a day job and/or what are your other interests?
I’ve been a full-time professional performer, author and lecturer of things magical ever since 1988. I’m not the first to state that in order to be good at something, you have to devote your life to it.
But this is far from being a restriction. Quite on the contrary, I’ve come to appreciate that magic is like a multifaceted diamond: every facet connects to a discipline of life. Regardless of whether you look at other arts, psychology, philosophy, the crafts, gastronomy, gardening, architecture, teaching, or what have you, it is reflected in magic, similar to a fractal that reflects the pattern of the whole in every detail. Therefore, if you study magic in its width and in its depth, you connect to what governs life, people and the universe.
Furthermore I agree with Confucius who said, "If in life you do something you like, you will never have to work." That’s my day (and night) job.
As part of a successful career in magic, what would be some highlights in your personal curriculum vitae?
I define "success" as finding one’s vocation, and then having the privilege of pursuing it every day, improving as you go along, and then, from time to time, sharing one’s insights with others. That’s the most important "success", in my opinion, and I’m very grateful to say that this is my greatest achievement.
To document this, there have been some less important milestones, which, however, showed me that I’m on the right path: In my younger years I won prizes at several magic competitions, the most important being the FISM World Championship awards in 1988 (The Hague) and 1991 (Lausanne). In 1986 I published my first book CardPerfect, and it was the beginning of yet another career within magic that lasts to this day. Over the years, being featured on the cover of many of the most important magic magazines has been a great recognition. In 2012, I received the coveted Literary Fellowship from the Academy of Magical Arts, along with a lifetime membership of their uniquely wonderful Magic Castle, and in 2014 the John Nevil Maskelyne Award for Literature from the prestigious Magic Circle of London. In 2015 at the FISM World Congress of Magic in Rimini they gave me their lifetime achievement award for "Theory & Philosophy". I’m an honorary member of several international magic associations. And of course I had several performances around the globe for VIPs and large companies that were personal highlights.
I cannot end the answer to this question without mentioning a "highlight & success" on another level, as important as my professional career, and that’s to have been able to make a dignified and prosperous life for my wife Barbara, and our two sons Rafael and Miro, and myself, in Switzerland.
How and when did you first get interested in card magic?
I was age 14 and took a magic book from the shelf of a public library, Grosse Zauberschule by Werner Waldmann. It was love at first sight, and opened the door to my future, but I did not know that at the time. The second book was Die Kunst, mit Karten zu zaubern – The Art of Magic With Cards by Hanns Friedrichs, all about cards, and that was it.
Anecdotally, it should be mentioned that Waldman was expelled from the "Magischer Zirkel von Deutschland" for having exposed magic tricks in that book; later they changed the rules, and now almost anybody can write almost anything, and might even get an award from them…
Magic
What gives magic its magnetic quality that makes it so enjoyable for people to watch?
My definition of magic is: Magic is the performing art of wonder.
Every art is about something that reflects life and the universe in a unique way. Architecture gives spaces a new meaning; literature, theatre and film represent man and his conflicts, etc. Magic makes the impossible possible by fulfilling the deepest human desires in an aesthetically interesting manner. This is done with a complex system of methodologies, based on scientific and artistic principles, and it is done in real-time (as opposed to the visual arts or film), as well as on different platforms (street, theatres, living rooms, restaurants, TV etc.), in various genres (close-up, large-scale illusions, mentalist etc.), and with different instruments (cards, coins, ropes, cups & balls etc.).
If a talented individual does this in a sincere, inspired and original way, the result will appeal to the intelligence as well as to the heart of any human being, regardless of gender, age or social status. That’s the ethos, logos and pathos Aristotle defined in his rhetoric. That’s all it takes to make anything "enjoyable and entertaining" in an extended sense of these terms.
What is it about magic that you still love today?
The simple answer is: it is my life, and I wouldn’t know anything else to do. There is also a more complex answer, but we’ll keep that for another time.
How important is one's own personality in performing magic, and how did this play a role in your own career?
Like any other discipline, in order to be artistic, magic has to express ideas and create emotions through the characteristics of the person who does it.
Obviously the effect, the method and the presentation have to be "original" in the sense of personal interpretation. Therefore, who you are, what you believe and know, as well as your skill, will always flow into what you do. In music you can hide behind a piano, in painting in a studio, but magic, unlike any other artistic discipline, is based on an immediate and one-to-one communicative model, and cannot be detached from the person who does it. In this sense the person (not persona!) is as important as the performance piece and its presentation, these being the three pillars upon which artistic magic is based. To do this in a successful way determines an artist’s career.
What differences are there in how an amateur and a professional approach magic?
I wrote a lengthy essay on the subject, but will try to be concise: The professional concentrates on the effect and communication, while most amateurs tend to be fascinated by novelty and methods. Albert Goshman, a famous magician, once said to me: "Professionals perform the same tricks before new audiences, while amateurs do new tricks for the same audiences."
Obviously, in both categories, there are very different levels, and it would be hypocritical not to say so. The amateur, not having the necessity to make a living from magic, can spend his time with apparently purposeless activities in magic, which has led many an "inspired amateur" (my term) to come up with brilliant ideas. However, it is usually the professional who takes these ideas, and through his experience and unique vision makes them "performance pieces". It is professionals who, as performers, usually bring the magic to the people, but it is more often than not the amateurs, as historians, collectors, inventors, authors, technicians, who take care of magic’s patrimony.
Although professionals and performing amateurs sometimes collide in the world of "show business" – with the Internet more than ever before – there is hardly a discipline were the two camps live in more peaceful and harmonious coexistence. Whereas you would have 100% professionals if you went to a doctor’s or architect’s convention, at a magic convention you will have 90% amateurs and not more than 10% professionals. That makes the magic community and its market very special indeed.
How has technology impacted the magic industry over the last couple of decades?
Magicians have always been at the forefront of science and technology: whenever something was invented, magicians were among the first to know and use it in their performances, either as a secret device, or as part of their shows. Isaac Fawkes (1675?–1732) who used automata and mechanical inventions in his booths in British fairgrounds, Georges Méliès (1861–1938) who changed a mechanical invention into the art of film making, or Jean-Eugène Robert-Houdin (1805–1871) who used the electro-magnet in the context of the French conflict in Algeria, and even invented numerous optical devices, among them apparatus still used today by ophthalmologists, are some of the most prominent examples.
However, I assume you’re alluding to what extent the technological advances influences the appeal of theatrical magic. History has shown that the more technologically advanced a society is, the more it has a need to compensate spiritually. This is done by religion and the arts. In 2019 there are 4,200 religions, and innumerable persons who make a living as "artists". To respectfully misuse a Churchill dictum: never before in the entire history of mankind have there been as many professional magicians, let alone amateurs and hobbyists, practicing magic, in so many different branches and genres, for so many people, who are paying so much to see them. That should prove beyond any discussion that magic today is more popular than ever before, in spite – or better – thanks to the technological advances of our age. In the legal system that would count as a precedent, and no more explanation is necessary.
If someone unearthed the ruins of an old building 500 years from now, which of your books or videos do you hope that they find, and why?
I very much doubt that any of the electronic supports could be replayed, which is one of the reasons we should keep books. In my library with over 3,500 titles in 17 languages (plus over 30 shelve-meters of magic magazines) I have also many from the 17th, 18th and 19th century. I can still read each of them. In this sense my choice would be the five volumes of Card College, because they would give a comprehensive overview of what in the 21st century, and before, were the effects, methods, presentations, theories and influential people in the world of magic in general, and that of card magic in particular.
What is some advice you would give to a young person just starting to learn card magic for the first time today?
Understand that magic is a craft and an art. Learn the basics first, and then start to build your skyscraper, which will now have a solid foundation. To start card magic (or any other discipline for that matter) with YouTube tutorials, is like starting to build a house on the fourth floor, or as Goshman used to wickedly say about magic clubs, the pre-Internet institutions "teaching" magic: "The blinds lead the blinds." Unfortunately in today’s world of Internet this is more true than ever (as if a truth could be less true…).
Finally three pieces of advice:
1. Use books, visual media and personal exchange in wise proportions.
2. Invest your money, don’t spend it – learn the difference.
3. If you are going to buy something anyway, get the better quality, even though it is more expensive. What counts is not its price, but the difference in price to that which you would buy anyway, and that difference more often than not, is not so much. Apply this also when buying a bottle of wine!
Playing cards
Do you use playing cards for anything besides card magic? (e.g. card flourishing, card games, or anything else?)
My father was an excellent card player with a photographic memory. We used to play many of the standard Italian family card games, such as Tresette, Scopa, Briscola, etc. When we came to the last hand he was able to tell me the cards I was holding! That might have been the first card trick I have been exposed to… Nowadays, when our sons come to visit every Sunday, after dinner, we play cards, mainly Swiss Jass (36 cards).
Finally: Although I do not consider myself a collector, I do have a few hundred different decks, and a well-sorted library on the subject, with some of the “classics” (d’Allemagne etc.).
Why do your refer to playing cards as your "instrument"?
Rather than calling playing cards a prop, as it is often done in the technical literature, I would like to consider them to be an instrument of the card conjurer, like the piano or the violin is an instrument to a musician, and I would even dare saying that cards are the most important and most widely used instrument in all of conjuring.
The more you know about your instrument, the more sensitively you will handle it and the more expressively you will master it, making it an extension of who you are. It is therefore imperative that you learn some facts (and speculations) regarding the origins and symbolism of playing cards, because this can form the basis for both intelligent conversations with your spectators as well as presentations for card routines.
What kind of playing cards did you first use when you started magic?
That’s a long time ago (1973)! However, I remember as if it was yesterday, that at age 14 I was given a flight from Basel to Geneva for my birthday, and that I went there with my godfather. When I got a chance I sneaked away and went to “Le Trucstore” in rue des rois in Geneva, a magic shop run by Jean Garance, who was quite a character and one of Switzerland’s few real professional magicians with an international reputation. He was most gracious, taught me a one-handed fan, and I bought the first deck of Bicycle Rider Back cards from him at the price of 12 Swiss Francs. I then used those as well as Tally-Ho Circle Back and Fan Back for years, because they appeared in the photos of the Ganson books on the card magic of Dai Vernon.
In 1978 I met Juan Tamariz, started to visit him once or twice a year in Madrid, and under his influence started to use Fournier’s Peacock 505. The printing qualities at that time were and still are superior to any USPCC card I know (the colors on the court cards, the tolerances on the white border etc.). Also they were almost flat being a bit stiffer without being fatter, you could table a face up pair with a face down card in-between, and they still appeared like two cards. With USPCC cards this was impossible, as they had a pronounced bend. The surface of the 505, however, was plastic coated, and so I had to relearn many of the sleights, especially the palms, as the cards behaved differently.
What kind of playing cards do you mostly use today, and what are the reasons for this choice?
After USPCC bought up Fournier, the quality of the cards started to change, for my taste to the worse, so I again switched back to Bicycle Rider Back and Tally-Ho Circle Back when performing for magicians, and Bee or Steamboat for gambling demos. For my professional work in front of lay audiences I still use Fournier 505, for practical reasons, since many of my special cards and decks are by them.
I still have to find the "perfect" deck – I don’t think it exists. But maybe the upcoming "Card College Playing Cards" by TCC is the one! (planned for release very soon)
How do modern decks compare with the ones you used at the start of your magic career, and how have playing cards changed over this time?
I can of course only state this from the point of view of a performing magician, which is different than that of a card player or a collector, I suppose.
For magical purposes it matters whether the cards are cut from top down or bottom up, because it influences in which direction you do a Faro Shuffle or a Perfect Table Shuffle. In recent years there has been a tendency to cut them bottom up, which favors table techniques, and shows the influence and number of amateurs in thumb field. Also, it is clear that companies do what they have to do: save as much as they can by economizing in materials in order to maximize their earnings. I cannot judge whether this is good or bad for the economy, but it certainly isn’t for the cards.
The advantage of all this is that new companies with new and creative approaches are emerging and producing cards nowadays. Still, even the good cards produced nowadays have specific characteristics, and none can satisfy the needs of all people and all purposes. Therefore the search for a good deck is made even more difficult than it used to be, because there are so many. It is similar to information: in my time it was hard to come by because there was so little, today it is hard to find, because there is so much.
What kinds of playing cards are best for card magic?
As already stated, the perfect playing card does not yet exist. And most likely it never will, for not only do numerous objective and often conflicting criteria enter into the equation, but also one's personal tastes and sensibility. It may well take you years to find the cards you like best.
There are as many brands of cards as there are grains of sand on the proverbial seashore. A good card consists of three layers: a face layer, a center layer for stiffness, and a back layer. The quality of the card is determined by the quality and grain of the paper, the glue, which becomes the center layer, the treatment of the outer surfaces called "finish" as well as the precision of the printing and the all-around cut.
Among the many designations used to categorize the treatment of the outer layers of playing cards, the most commonly seen are plastic coated, linen finish, resilient linen finish, air-cushion finish, ivory finish and Nevada finish, but there are several more. Buy one of each of these decks and experiment with them. But be prepared to change your preference in the course of time. Criteria that seem important to you when you begin your study may seem less so as you become more expert. The advantage of plastic coated cards is that they last longer and generally stay flat. But they also cling less to one another, which can make them more difficult to fan evenly. Then again they are better for false deals and false shuffles, having less friction.
Use a standard fifty-two card deck plus the accompanying jokers, exchanging Jokers from two decks to have two identical Jokers in each; this is like having a duplicate, and it can facilitate certain maneuvers. If you can do magic with a fifty-two card deck, other decks will pose no problems, whereas the reverse is certainly not the case. Smaller decks, such as the French Piquet pack or the German Skat deck, each of which has only thirty-two cards, or the Swiss Jass deck with thirty-six cards or the Spanish and Italian decks with forty, are best reserved for special routines centering around games using those cards, or if you perform in one of those countries.
Should we use bridge-sized cards or poker-sized cards, and why?
The fundamental distinction is between poker-size and bridge-size cards, although there are also miniature decks and jumbo decks. Poker-size decks are somewhat wider than bridge-size decks. My advice is to use poker-size cards from the very beginning, for practical reasons. I shall outline the pros of poker-size cards:
● Poker-size cards have larger face, and their design is more generous, less crammed, and therefore more aesthetic, and their proportion is closer to the golden ratio.
● Poker-size cards have more surface area available to press against, and are better for many tricks and techniques because they provide more cover.
● Poker-size cards are more pliable thanks to their greater width, making techniques like the riffle shuffle easier and more attractive to execute.
● Poker-size cards are more widely used throughout the world, and it is mainly in Europe that laymen prefer bridge-size cards.
● Poker-size cards are generally manufactured by companies, who also supply casinos with decks, and thus must be trustworthy brands, or they would not be used by gambling establishments.
● Poker-size cards are in my experience generally better quality and have more attractive back designs - would you want to work with less than the best?
● Poker-size cards are used by experts, and have become a status factor in the magic profession.
Finally, if you practice with poker-size cards, you can always perform with bridge-size cards if offered a borrowed deck.
What kind of design is best for playing cards used for card magic?
The best back designs for the card conjurer have a white border. Prominent examples are Bicycle Rider Backs and Tally-Ho Circle Backs. Borders are more pleasing aesthetically. They also relax the eye and facilitate the execution of many techniques.
For gambling routines, though, cards with a borderless back design, particularly the Bee and Steamboat brands, are recommended, as such cards are generally used in professional gambling. This is because of the widely held belief that such cards are more difficult to mark on the back - which is a total myth.
Is it necessary to treat playing cards with fanning powder or in any other way?
Some magic books will tell you that the cards must be specially treated, but generally this is in reference to cards for the stage manipulator. Cards for close-up performances need not be treated. So forget about fanning powder, simply use a good quality new deck.
Decks with rough edges, or ones that do not spread evenly, must be broken in by handling them for several minutes, shuffling, cutting and dealing them. But stop before your perspiration penetrates the edges of the cards. Here is a simple, quick and cheap remedy for rough edges, told to me by card expert Dave Solomon of Chicago. Take a piece of relatively rough cardboard, larger than the deck. Grip the deck firmly and rub its ends and sides quickly back and forth a few times on the cardboard while pressing hard. You can also bevel the sides slightly and repeat the rubbing, doing so as you bevel the deck first one way and then the other. The cardboard acts like a very fine sandpaper and quickly smoothes the edges, making them amenable to faro shuffles and other expert handling.
What other advice do you have for selecting a deck to use for card magic?
Once you have found the cards that work best for you, stick with them until you have a compelling reason to switch. Work exclusively with these cards. You can put together most trick decks yourself or - for certain popular brands - order them from a magic store. You can also make trick cards to match most decks yourself or have them made for you.
Whether performing for a large or small audience, always use a new deck or one in new condition. New cards guarantee optimal execution of techniques and identify you as a polished artist, one who pays attention to detail; so don't try to skimp on this. Never forget that the deck of cards is your instrument.
If you can afford it, give the deck away at the end of your performance. You can make this a signature feature of your show.
