criss angel botched "illusion" now exposed as a ph

Chat about specific magicians and their shows, their careers and their place in the history of magic.

Moderators: bananafish, support, Rob, Lady of Mystery, nickj, Mandrake

Dude That's Cool Magic Aeternum Servare Secreta Manufacturer of modern & unique magic apparatus! A web site set up to sell my book, THE STRIPPER DECK, and future magical/mentalism titles. Visit Magicbox for all the latest and best effects! Web Design for Magicians

criss angel botched "illusion" now exposed as a ph

Postby sniperx » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:16 am



Chris Angel Debunked/Busted

I don’t believe in giving away an illusion if you pre know the trick, but believe it is fair game to point out a Bad Illusion when it is botched and freely visible and available to the novice. It is then fair game to comment on. More important it’s fair game to point out when no illusion is involved at all…

Chris Angel has now been officially debunked and busted.. Of course most people would agree each trick on mindfreak is an illusion, but because the show is filmed, a major assumption that the crowds and reactions are real. That assumption that the illusions Angel does are before a real audience is the key separating him from a true illusionist vs a fake not worthy of his title.

Episode
Wine Barrel Escape: DejaVue Trick Botched..
Chris is shown inside the hotel coming through the doorway into a hallway. He reacts with surprise “oh and now were on tape”, as if an impromptu moment. Chris has some family and what looks to be at least 2 to 4 bystanders walking through the door with him. The camera then shows 2 different couples walking down the hall towards them.. Chris intercepts both.. He asks all four their names and asks them to be the “eyes” for the camera to validate what he is going to show them. He has one couple stand 10 feet down the hall, and the other couple stand right to his side. A group of family and other bystanders stand behind him.. all in all a typical size “impromptu” audience for his illusions. He then tells the one couple to think of a deja vue moment and hold that thought in their mind “just as he does in every illusion”, then suddenly steps DIRECTLY in front of the CAMERA completely blocking the view and couple, and says “ITS GOING TO HAPPEN NOW!” he steps aside unblocking the camera view and the couple are now at the end of the hall.

This “trick” was botched and now exposed him. When he is blocking the camera view there is a clearly defined shadow on the left wall of the couple where the blocked view copule are standing. The shadow shows them quickly moving towards the right side wall light which is creating the shadow. There is clearly a corner there and door which the corners blocks from camera view…(this is not secret most hotels have similar layouts).. the shadow clearly shows them shadow of the couple quickly ducking to the right and into one of the hotel rooms. As if this obvious botch wasn’t bad enough, right before Chris steps in front to block the cameras view, you can clearly see the girl of the couple quickly moving to the side bolting for the open hidden by corner hotel room door. Not one but TWO clearly visible dead giveaway cues..

More significant to this though is that all 3 couples react with surprise and the typical bleeped out cuss word, the couple to his side, the couple that bolts when he blocks the camera view, and the lookalike couple at the end of the hall. Them and the people behind him all clearly on the fake stunt. Note Chris was ONLY blocking the camera view now the couple to his side.. meaning they Clearly would have seen the other stooge couple bolting to the side door, thus confirming the entire crowd were stooges as no “illusion” was performed or even attempted. No illusion as defined by magick/illusions was performed and was purely obstructing camera view and paid stooges. This means that every single “illusion” that angel performs on mindfreak now can be debunked as not even illusion just obstructed view and stooges.. I pose the argument that tht is not magic or illusion and not worthy to be claimed as such.. Mindfreak is a Busted show. And Angel has been busted as phony..

This episode was Tivoed, and I’d be happy to provide the stills/video if anyone needs me to back this up.. Note I don’t have anything against Angel, I just don’t believe someone claming to be an illusionist that doesn’t perform illusions, that even botches his own camera hiding should be exposed..

sniperx
New User
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:11 am

Postby MagicAL » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:23 am

Fair comment. A well written and I believe justified piece. I must admit I have never been a massive fan of these kind of shows, where impromptu feats are performed on camera. Just always very synical etc. :?

MagicAL
Senior Member
 
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 7:37 pm
Location: Harpenden

Postby kems » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:35 am

Excelent.. well done :D

I will have to try to see that at some point! you should email him!

User avatar
kems
Senior Member
 
Posts: 771
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:15 pm
Location: Essex, UK (32:AH)

Postby mark_c1975 » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:26 am

I agree, a well written piece.

I've always thought the impromptu illusions have always been a little too 'convenient' for my liking.

That said... I still enjoy the stuff he does, and he makes a lot of money from it. Fair play to him...

Last edited by mark_c1975 on Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
mark_c1975
Senior Member
 
Posts: 449
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:48 am
Location: Horsham, UK (35:AH)

Postby MagicIain » Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:59 pm

Nice post, and excellently spotted. However, have you not just simply discovered the method to a magic effect? It's not really that big a deal, is it? It's almost as though you are frustrated at how simple his method is.

I think if your original post had the point of 'hey, I figured out how Angel did this on his show the other day,' then it would be an informative piece and a lesson in rehearsal for all of us.

User avatar
MagicIain
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 1437
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:53 pm
Location: Colchester, Essex (30:WP)

Postby kems » Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:09 pm

I think the main point here is that we now KNOW he uses paid stooges.... and therefore any effect he does we will expect the usual fake shock etc...

User avatar
kems
Senior Member
 
Posts: 771
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:15 pm
Location: Essex, UK (32:AH)

exactly as Kems said

Postby sniperx » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:11 pm

Exactly as Kems said.. I am a fan of magic illusionists, not a performer myself. Regardless, if Criss is portrayed as an illusionist/magician.. and as Iv shown, he is NOT - this is pretty significant. The difference between An illusionist and simply using all stooges and blocking the camera or have the camera angle hiding obvious rigs are apples and oranges.. one is an accepted art, the other requires literally no skill other then acting and shouldn’t be categorized as an illusionist magician. Isn't it a disservice to true illusionist/magicians to claim otherwise?

IF you look at any of his impromptu stunts, the camera stays in a fixed location and the "audience" while the audience does all the examination .. IF as I have shown, the audiences are all stooges- the most basic of rigs that literally anyone could do can be implemented.. the levitation trick for example could be obvious suspension wires the stooges easily can see but the camera with limited resolution cannot.. and so on ..

sniperx
New User
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:11 am

Re: exactly as Kems said

Postby MagicIain » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:21 pm

sniperx wrote:the other requires literally no skill other then acting and shouldn’t be categorized as an illusionist magician.


I think this is where our opinions differ - or maybe just our perceptions of what an illusion or magical effect is.

I am certain there are paid performers out there, and probably some that frequent TalkMagic, that use self-working effects. Be they a simple self-working card-trick using a svengali deck, or maybe something like the Money Printer by Mikame, they too require no skill other than acting, but are real crowd-pleasers in the right hands.

I'd say yes, well done for working out this illusion - but just because it requires no skill (by that, you mean manual dexterity), and uses stooges (and Angel is definitely not the first to do that!), it doesn't mean he deserves a bashing for it!

I wish I had a TV series in which I could utilise a bit of camera trickery and keep some knockout effects up my sleeve.

User avatar
MagicIain
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 1437
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:53 pm
Location: Colchester, Essex (30:WP)

Postby dat8962 » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:30 pm

I agree with Zack and use a couple of self workers with great reactions in my table hopping.

Generally, people will not believe that they can and have been deceived by something so simple (if only they knew of course) and what makes it so magical is your presentation.

We all ask in our posts from time to time what each other does when things go wrong and there's a current thread on this at the moment. We're all only human after all and even the most seasoned pro will have the occasional off night.

Well done for working it out but it's not the end of the world. I suspect that he's thinking, OK - I was caught by x percent of magicians who were watching but I fried a few million laymen. I'd be more than happy with that :lol:

Member of the Magic Circle & The 2009 British Isles Close-Up Magician of the Year
It's not really an optical illusion - it just looks like one!
User avatar
dat8962
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 9265
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:19 pm
Location: Leamington Spa (50:Semi-Pro)

Postby uberpony » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:11 pm

Well...that's rather dissappointing... :cry:

I caught onto that trick, I think he overstepped what the audience was supposed to be able to believe possible with it. I didn't notice quite as many details, but it seemed apparent that the couple had just run off to the side while the doppelgaenger were in the back.

I had never really thought that this meant his levitation trick could be a total farce too...I really liked that one...

uberpony
New User
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:09 pm
Location: Washington, D.C. (17:EN)

Postby Demitri » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:39 am

I caught this effect as well, but I cannot and will not say that this completely debunks Criss Angel as an illusionist and magician, and frankly, I'm surprised by the number of people who have allowed such a comment to come through.

Yes - he used stooges - however - in his defense - at NO TIME did he say that the people in the hall were going to see something amazing. He is clearly performing for the television audience.

The notion that you can debunk an illusionist because paid stooges were used is just laughable. Many effects have used stooges, and I'm sure even some of the magic heroes on here have done so. Stooges are a part of the game, and a very effective one at that.

Furthermore - to claim that ALL of Angel's effects and performances can be debunked in this manner is just a flat-out lie. I can claim that EVERY SINGLE David Blaine effect uses a stooge. I could say that Michael Ammar uses a fake audience and stops recording so he can play with the cards and set them up to do the reveal. Would I be wrong? Of course. Put it in context. For example:

David Blaine didn't ACTUALLY read that guys' mind - he didn't turn over the card that man thought of. He used the ID. He's a fraud! He didn't actually read his mind, he used a gimmick deck!

Isn't that a bit of a stretch to call him a fraud?

I won't begin to comment on how Sniper has GLARINGLY overlooked the fact that ALL magic and illusion can be completely debunked. For the simple reason that there IS NO SUCH THING AS MAGIC. But that's not the point. Criss Angel isn't selling himself as the real deal. David Blaine didn't, Houdini, Ammar - etc. Everyone older than 7 KNOWS it's a trick - but it's how they let themselves FORGET that and enjoy what they're watching. None of us think we're magical - we're magicians. BIG difference.

You caught him on an effect. Bravo and good eye. That's fine if exposing the truth is what you're after. Bear two things in mind, though.

1 - You didn't debunk him - you just outed a secret. I can almost guarantee 99% of his audience knows it's fake - they just don't know how he faked it. You saw the evidence, but I could hardly say you're the first to expose him.

2 Even in doing so, it certainly doesn't allow you to come here and label him as a fraud. WE'RE ALL FRAUDS at the end of the day, if you want to get technical. But that's not the point. Did he try to sell you something? Did he put a label on the beginning saying "Everything you're going to see is real"? Did he say that he had true magical powers? No. He's not selling snake oil - he's performing for a crowd. He's not telling you he can talk to your dead cat if you call his 900 number. It's not fraud - it's entertainment.

I uphold this effect was never meant to sell as an impromptu illusion for the people in the hall. Remember, Sniper - the "crowd" he was going to show something to was his family. Now, I'm just guessing here, but I think they know it's not actually real.

If you don't like the guy, that's cool. I'm not his biggest fan, either. However, to make such a claim is naive and I think rather foolish. You see one thing and suddenly ALL of his stuff uses stooges? That anyone let this slide is amazing to me. This is nothing more than a total and complete lie. I challenge you and anyone who has responded in kind, to prove to me that every single effect Criss Angel performs uses a paid stooge and/or audience. The fact that you think it does, Sniper - and the fact that you felt the need to pore over every detail to debunk him, only shows me that you completely missed the point of the effect altogether.

Think about it - you are claiming that he tried to deceive us. Yeah - him and everyone else in magic.....

User avatar
Demitri
Elite Member
 
Posts: 2207
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 7:09 pm
Location: US, NY, 31:SH

Postby dat8962 » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:00 pm

We'll just have to wait for the masked magician to get around to performing / revealing it :lol:

Member of the Magic Circle & The 2009 British Isles Close-Up Magician of the Year
It's not really an optical illusion - it just looks like one!
User avatar
dat8962
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 9265
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:19 pm
Location: Leamington Spa (50:Semi-Pro)

Postby Cooldudedan » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:39 pm

masked magician is retired isnt he... he took offa his mask but i kinda forgot who he was :S

User avatar
Cooldudedan
Junior Member
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:43 pm
Location: Darlington

Postby moodini » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:06 pm

Back to the main post......I would love to see the stills, pics, etc you have of the botched effect

User avatar
moodini
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:05 am
Location: Canada (34-WP)

Postby bananafish » Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:35 pm

Demitri wrote:I caught this effect as well, but I cannot and will not say that this completely debunks Criss Angel as an illusionist and magician, and frankly, I'm surprised by the number of people who have allowed such a comment to come through.


I totally agree with that, and have to say that I find it a little disturbing to say the least that most were so quick to jump on the band wagon slagging the guy off.

As most people here perform magic in one form or another, I feel we should have a little more respect for our professional colleagues. After all we know how difficult it actually is to be entertaining AND magical. So you worked out how something was done. So what! (said the naked tailor). You really think that makes him a rubbish perform, or the effect was totally botched? Personally I don't think so.

I have to admit I have never seen the man perform, but I have non magician friends that have, and they think they guy is awesome. To me that says he is doing something right, and if he makes their lives that little bit more magical, then that's a good thing for magic. Surely?

User avatar
bananafish
Consultant Moderator
 
Posts: 5813
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 8:43 am
Location: Simon Shaw. Suffolk, UK (50:SH)

Next

Return to Magicians' Hall of Fame

ink cartridges Sorcery Shop - Home of the ITR MagicWorld Magic Shop for Magic Tricks Best prices around! World-Of-Magic, Suppliers of quality Magic Worldwide Best prices around!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests