talkmagic.co.uk

i thought i heard/read criss angel saying that he swears there is no camera tricks in his show Mindfreak. so... whats this complaining about camera tricks?

I see what you're saying about misdirection, flipback - but bear in mind, you can't misdirect a camera.

Thats the point you cannot misderect the camera as it is a) already
misderected or b) simply covered. When in front if a live audience you
cannot simply tell them all to close thier eyes for a minute while you do you
thing.

As for Chriss saying thier are no camera tricks. First off it depends on his definition of camera tricks. Maybe he means thier is no computer editing, because there are funky things done with the camera.

I have read all the opinions in this thread and can agree with any and all of them, to some extent. I've got no problem with saying "Hey, he (Criss) screwed that one up". But I also still applaud when I see a live performance and the magician accidently fumbles or flashes the secret. The difference here is that Criss is making big money for his show and I believe he could be doing a better job in some ways. Do I think he is not a competent magician?... of course not. He can conjure circles around most of us hacks. Do I think he should have caught his mistakes in post production and said "hey guys, we botched that one, let's not use it, or let's do it again"?... absolutely.
If it's a live performance, once it's botched, it's botched. You can't take it back. But when you are on tape, on international TV, and you are representing magic in general, you had better be "on", none of that sloppy stuff. When you DO screw up and you have the chance to "take it back", then do it. Then again, they may have been facing the issue of getting it "in the can" by the air date deadline. Maybe they didn't have time to do another take, or maybe the editor didn't see the exposure, maybe it was a budget issue, maybe it was laziness on somebody's part, or maybe they thought the public is too stupid to catch his mistakes. The problem is that the camera does not blink or look away (I could only WISH that I had that problem). But, in this day of Tivo, they HAVE to know that there are going to be certain people who are going to go over their stuff frame by frame. So I believe that they need to do their best to present the absolutely best product that they can, with that product being a great illusion that can't be exposed.
OR, maybe Criss is just being honest and saying "this is the way it happened, warts and all, take it for what it's worth, hope you enjoy it anyway". If that's the case, then kudos to him for being a straight up kind of guy.
Now, regarding Criss' presentation style, I don't have any problems with his persona. Every magician needs a character or some type of personality, and the brooding rocker magician is Criss'. He does it well. Not my cup of tea, but I still like to watch him.
What I DO have a problem with is some twerp figuring out how something is done because of some technical or lighting problem, then going online, exposing the snafu, and then blasting the performer as a charlatan. It's like the guy sitting next to you in the movie theater at the climax of a suspenseful film who leans over and says "I saw this one already, the butler did it with the candlestick in the library." You just want to kill them. One of the golden rules of being a magician is respect for your fellow performers. DO NOT badmouth other magicians, regardless of their skill level. It only drags down the art in general and makes you look stupid at best. I'm willing to bet that the guy who posted the "exposure" at the beginning of this thread couldn't do a decent DL or classic palm to save his life.
Criss has picked up the torch that David Blaine lit. Like them or not, they are shining a new light on magic, and from the ratings of those shows, the public is eating it up. Blaine is a household name on at least two continents and Criss is right behind. Even my 75 year old mother-in-law, who isn't the least bit interested in magic, knows who David Blaine is. This type of attention can only benefit everybody who loves the art. So let's see a little less bashing out there. If you are busy practicing like you should be, you wouldn't have time for running down other magicians.
.... and that's just my two cents.....

Over the past week Penn Jillette interviewed Criss on his podcast, listen to it at http://www.pennradio.com/.

Interestingly, they discuss this very effect. For those of you with strong opinions, you would be advised to listen to what both Penn and Criss have to say. He also tips the method (as if we didn't know).

good observations

bananafish wrote:I have to admit I have never seen the man perform, but I have non magician friends that have, and they think they guy is awesome. To me that says he is doing something right, and if he makes their lives that little bit more magical, then that's a good thing for magic. Surely?

Well said that man!

Yeah people use stooges. David Blaine does it, David Copperfield does it, Penn and Teller did it, even Derren Brown does it! But thats not really the point is it?
I mean I've done a trick with a stooge. The trick would have turned out shockingly bad if I hadn't, but that doesn't mean all my tricks are clearly fakes and anyone who says "Yes! That's my card!" are 'in on the secret' with me.

At the end of the day, magic is about entertainment. And if you can open up a brief impromptu performance when someone hands you a deck of cards and you can say "Well I'm no David Blaine/Paul Daniels/Insert Favourite Magician Here but this one is pretty cool..." then people have made a link to someone who does "real magic" to them and as an entertainer, the magician can entertain people more.

Wow. one slightly botched effect. Big deal. People like him. He capitivates the true essence of magic and that is entertainment.

HEY EVERYONE, YOU HAD BETTER SIT DOWN, BECAUSE I HAVE SOME REAL BAD NEWS FOR YOU.

WE ARE ALL FRAUDS AND FAKES.

Unless you are telling me you actually CAN do REAL MAGIC.

We use props, gimmicks, stooges, sleights or good old fashioned misdirection.

From what I have read in this thread, by standing in front of the camera, he was misdirecting people.

I have a test for people who feel that my above statement might be out of order, or untrue.

If you can make £100,000,000 appear on my desk, I will give you £1000, together with a public apology

i agree

We entertain our audience. But if the audience is 100% stooges, then it's just a movie. Speaking of movies, Star Wars uses 100% stooges, is 30yrs old, and much more entertaining than someone pretending to be an illusionist.
The Matrix at least has a storyline.

Part of the entertainment value is the thought 'oh wouldn't it be cool if I was there in the audience!' Now we know how it wouldn't be cool.

I highly doubt any working magicians/illusionists are using an entire audience of stooges. I see what you're saying and all, but the comment is grossly inaccurate.

Man this thread has degenerated quite a bit. Now where down to everyone is a phony and Star Wars was better than the Matrix, riiiight, whatever.

I believe that it is not healthy to criticise another magician simply beause of the method he use. As long as the audience believe in the illussion, have 100% entertaining value in the performance & create mind boggling reaction. Then magician has serve his purpose.my 2 cents..

A lot of people here have a lot o thinks misunderstood.
Magic is not the art of using stooges.
Magic is not the art of using camera tricks.
Tell that to Dai Vernon and other great magicians.
If not, the magic schools would be teaching camera tricks and stooge use.
If you have to do that, it means you are no good enough.
René Lavand, Roberto Giobbi, Juan Tamariz and others don´t need that.
A lot of Marketing Magicians of the USA need that. Because that´s what the market of the USA buy. Crappy things. They like it the easy way.
If you can´t be that good, try playing ping pong or something else.
This is a good and noble art. Don´t make it vulgar, because it´s not.
Hope you can try to be something better.

Option wrote:Speaking of movies, Star Wars uses 100% stooges, is 30yrs old, and much more entertaining than someone pretending to be an illusionist.
The Matrix at least has a storyline.

Option must use "REAL" magic... he made the Matrix not suck.....

Bravo!

Seriously, I know this isn't a movie discussion forum and I have real comments to be made.

I agree totally with an above post that states we are all frauds, cause we are.

It's not about the "how" it's all about the "what", I'm sure that some of you must know what I mean.

Just because I use an X-force doesn't mean that the spec isn't still a bit amazed that I have a sealed envelope with either a duplicate (in a different color) or an index card with the same symbol. It can still hit them hard, but I don't really KNOW in the way they think that I know.

IT'S A LIE! It's deception. it's ACTING.

Yeah, ok, he botched one. Haven't we ALL screwed one up? I say that if you haven't, you aren't trying hard enough.

Give the guy a break, he performs on the street, in front of cameras, and he shows us all that he has "acorns" the size of basketballs.

We should all give credit where credit is due. And 99% of the time, he nails it.