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Though they are related arts, Mentalism is extremely different than Magic and I see no area here that allows us to distinguish that difference, share insights particular to Mentalism or even Bizarre styled performance. May want to think that over.

Craig Browning wrote:Though they are related arts, Mentalism is extremely different than Magic and I see no area here that allows us to distinguish that difference, share insights particular to Mentalism or even Bizarre styled performance. May want to think that over.

Hello there,

Do you think there should be more separation or perhaps more integration between them?

I think what Craig is saying is that we should consider a separate room purely for discussions on mentalism (and perhaps another one for bizarre magic).

Currently such mentalism focused discussions tend to either be in miscellaneous or Reviews (if it is an out and out review of a mentalist product). There are also several more open mentalism related topics in the Magicians Only areas.

Having a room purely for mentalism has been discussed, and although there are pros to having such a room the last concensus was that too many rooms would actually clutter up the forum.

Perhaps it's time to re-open those discussions though? especially as mentalism seems to be more and more popular these days.

What does everyone else think?

Tomo wrote:

Craig Browning wrote:Though they are related arts, Mentalism is extremely different than Magic and I see no area here that allows us to distinguish that difference, share insights particular to Mentalism or even Bizarre styled performance. May want to think that over.

Hello there,

Do you think there should be more separation or perhaps more integration between them?

I'm an old faishoned Psychic Entertainer that don't think the two should be mixed... a purest, as it were... and believe it or not, I was doing Mentalism long before David Blaine & Criss Angels turned it into the current trendy way of doing magic...

Mentalism and magic, as Craig says, should most definitely NOT be mixed.

And there is plenty of room for a mentialism-bizarre forum.

Since these are the two feastest-growing areas of magic, there will only be more and more practitioners looking for a place to exchange ideas.

I'm all for a dedicated mentalism room aswell.

I think there should be too. That way I can tell about my awesome mental trick I tried that I even got a 6 year old to perform. Hehe

That way I can tell about my awesome mental trick I tried that I even got a 6 year old to perform

Meanwhile, why not tell us about it back ovrin the Miscellaneous room?

The thing is that most of the membership here is interested in closeup magic, predominantly card oriented. We have often discussed opening rooms for various other branches, but the volume of posts we recieve would not, in our opinion, justify the extra areas. For this reason we have specifically not opened many rooms for specific discussion as it would make the whole forum more cumbersome. Personally I think that, whilst it may not necessarily sit side by side in a routine, mentalism can happily share a forum with magic.

nickj wrote:The thing is that most of the membership here is interested in closeup magic, predominantly card oriented. We have often discussed opening rooms for various other branches, but the volume of posts we recieve would not, in our opinion, justify the extra areas. For this reason we have specifically not opened many rooms for specific discussion as it would make the whole forum more cumbersome. Personally I think that, whilst it may not necessarily sit side by side in a routine, mentalism can happily share a forum with magic.

I'm tempted to be very crass in reply to this, but I'll refrain.

Most who do not or cannot see that mentalism is dyametrically different from traditional magic are persons that fail to understand how the application of said techniques affects people in ways far different than magic tricks. Nor do they understand that even with a ton of solid disclaimers in place, human beings will see such material as "real" when it's done properly. The other reason individuals have this point of view is the fact that they have little to no hands on experience in the arena in question e.g. they are incapable of relating to this paradigm and why the two art forms, though related, aren't one in the same.

Yes, there are other forums that have mentalism sections as well as those that cater to nothing but Mentalism and Bizarre aspects of magic. The thing is, very few that are here seem to be aware of those sites or more directly, can't qualify to join them due to lack of experience e.g. they need a resource to discuss their questions, etc. and bounce things off of people that have and do work in this field. Not just another johnnycomelately but people that have been doing this kind of work for much more than a decade or two.

I'm with nickj on this one, the reason I like Talk Magic is because it's forums are compact and perfectly formed!

If you say you need a seperate forum for Mentalism then why not start new forums for Kids Magic, Comedy Magic, Stage Magic, Escapology, Coins etc etc??

Before you know where you are your forums look like the Magic Cafe - which are a fragmented confusing mess IMO!

Personally I'd like a forum just for card flourishes and card maniupulation - which is also a hot area but the same logic about forum proliferation applies. I'm much better off going to Dan and Dave's site, or Handlordz who specialise in the subject area where you'll find lots of like minded and experienced individuals - not just one!

As I said earlier if you're really into Mentalism there are much more established places you can discuss it - maybe you can post some links to them Craig?

Craig, I think your reply backs up our reasons for not having a specific mentalism forum here in that it wouldn't be used to its full potential.

I fully understand where you are coming from on your view of mentalism, though I don't personally intend to take mine much beyond 'mental magic' in the forseable future. If we had a separete mentalism area it would be used almost exclusively for the type of mentalism discussion that you would aim to steer clear of and would almost certainly become an underused part of the site.

Then there are, perhaps selfishly on our part, considerations of moderating the area, having posts spread out more and making it harder for those of us who try to read every single post made here. Then finally there are the reasons that Nubbin reitterated, namely that if we started seperate areas for each different but related branch we would end up with more rooms than members and the whole place would be a mess.

I don't see any reason at all why a thread seriously discussing pure mentalism can't sit next to one about sponge bunnies except for the possibility that you would disencourage serious mentalists from joining, but then, Craig, you have already implied that no-one here is of suitable caliber to benefit properly from what they might bring to the forum so they would probably be wasting their time here anyway

Many of us would be grateful for the insight that you can bring us, but I don't think that we need a separate room to discuss it in unless the membership in general is so mentally dull that they can't allow their mind to move on from the last thread they read about card sleights.

It seems to me there is a lot more support for a children's entertainers section. Since that has not even happened yet It would seem premature to have a mentalism forum.
Personally I can never understand why people require a special section before they feel comfortable with starting a topic. In my opinion if a new section is to be started it should be because a lot of posts on a particuar specialst part of magic are being made. In order to keep them all together it would then make some kind of sense, but until then it could easily end up being a dead part of the forum.

If any one is for a specific room for Mentalism - please post a message in this thread as why you feel it is needed, and why new mentalism threads can't just be created in existing rooms, such as Miscellaneous, or Techniques (for more open discussions).

The same goes for children's magic. Why do we need a new room. Why can't we just post messages in existing rooms?

thanks

I know I'm wasting my breath... but it's very simple; MENTALISM IS NOT THE SAME THING AS MAGIC.

I've had several PMs/emails from members of this forum that are grateful that someone who knows and is EXPERIENCED in Mentalism is here and willing to help them out.

Yes, you will end up with a longer list of "categories" if you give a special area to Mentalism and one to Children's Magic, one for the Bizarre side, etc. but, you will also get more traffic in that these seperate areas allow visitors to find the areas that interest them with great ease vs. wading through all the "who's the best...what's your favorite...and why I like..." type posts allied with other areas of magic/entertainment. It's just simple organization that makes navigation easier for all and, as has been proven with all those other forums that follow this rule, lends to the board a sense of maturity and general respect to both, the craft and the membership.

Someone mentioned above that I was "obviously shooting for a moderator's position" when such simply isn't the truth. I've been a mod in the past and I really have no desire to be one now days... I keep plenty busy enough.

The thing is, with specified topic areas you can sticky FAQ threads into place that answer the most repeated of questions i.e. what books to I need? etc. You can deliver definitions to terms, links to resources and other SERVICES that will BENEFIT your membership and thus, establish this forum as a functioning board that means business.

Just a few tid bits to ponder...