talkmagic.co.uk

I am currently reading the book "Comedy writing step by step" by Perret. It is an interesting book and gives not only instructions on how to write your own gags and routines, but also insight on how the entertainment business works.

One thing which struck me is that professional comedians do buy their jokes from writers. That's right - they buy scripts instead of writing them themselves. Others - in particular those with daily TV shows - have an entire staff of professional writers.

Now, on the other hand we magicians are begin told by the few resources that touch on the subject to "come up with our own patter". Even less books tell us how to do that. And there is essentially none that even mentions how difficult it is for a layman to write a good presentation and wording.

So there are zillions of books and DVDs that teach us how to do a classic pass but none of the authors is aware that actually using it in a routine is at least of comparable difficulty to mastering the sleight itself. I could not imagine how I could possibly come up with a polished and smooth act like R. Osterlind did on Mind Mysteries I.

So I was wondering - we magicians are so used to buying methods from professionals instead of inventing our own ones. We are also buying ideas for the applications of those methods. But we are discouraged to buy the presentations.

So do you actually write your own patter and presentation of an effect or do you rather copy (and possibly modify to your needs) the presentation of a professional?

... I write my own.
If I used or bought someone's else's, then it just wouldn't be me!
Maybe that is why some ( not all ) presenters look a little wooden ?
But, i think it's horses for courses. and if you hear a joke or line you like, and it fits you, add it in.

Piers.

I am not sure I totally get this...

You are saying that comedians BUY their patter/jokes?

I am sure that many of today's top comedians would like to contest that remark. They may have co-writers, but on the whole, stand up comedians write their own material.

And as a magician, part of the creative process of making a show your own should be the adapting of patter to suit your own style and performance.

I agree that your standard script-based daily show is heavily 'ghost-written', but I can only say that because magic is an artform, and as such is an expression of individuality, then it follows that to make a show or performance unique, it stands to reason you should have a heavy involvement in the writing of patter.

Patter should accompany the effects/illusions/tricks/performance much as tonic water accompanies gin; it is a dilution to add body, flavour and most importantly—make it last a little longer.

How you mix your effects with your patter is what defines you. Whether it's a bumbling, incoherent patter which accompanies a genius card handling (as in the case of Lennart Green), or a very polished patter which accompanies a very nice illusion (as with David Copperfield) or even just a very simple patter which has no story, relevance or misdirection, but still has the charisma of the individual (would be true of Michael Ammar).

Watch any magician perform and you will see their own personality. It's much like character acting. David Blaine is stone-cold mostly, and very serious. Derren Brown is flirty, gentlemanly and wry. Jerry Sadowitz is aggressive, pacy and raucous.

Imagine if they interchanged their acts? Would it work? I don't think so.

Imagine if they interchanged their acts?

I'm trying very hard to imagine Jerry Sadowitz performing his act with that 'dead fish' expression David Blaine uses. Nope, it ain't working!

A lot of the 'greats' of UK comedy started out as gag/comedy writers for others, Bob Monkhouse and Ronnie Barker are two main examples but, even with their brilliance, the performers would have to interpret and present the gags in their own style otherwise it just wouldn't work.

seige wrote:I am not sure I totally get this...

You are saying that comedians BUY their patter/jokes?

Oh, me Sir, Me! I know, Sir!

It's true, but not so much for stand-ups. Comedy shows buy gags and lots of them. Weekly shows need more and daily ones are positively ravenous. Possibly the best gag writer of recent times was the sadly-missed Debbie Barham, which also explains why all my emails come with the overfamiliar "Cheers" at the end.

personally i'd say writting your own patter is essential.
i once saw someone perform a Revolver trick using EXACTLY the same patter as Oz Pearlman (now i won't start on the fact that Oz totally forgets it's a "revolver" trick half way through...) and it just sat totally wrong! something was just well off with it. probably because it just sounded so rehearsed and impersonal.
which made me pretty much forget all the patter i had and just make it all up on the spot, of course i have a few lines i use over and over... but i feel if i actually do it spontaneously then it sounds nicer.

for the comedy side.... i have that too, although because i seem to spend a lot of time watching certain comedy shows anything funny i try to say during an effect comes out sounding like it could be a quotation from The Mighty Boosh.


take inspiration! but don't copy!

rumburak wrote:So do you actually write your own patter and presentation of an effect or do you rather copy (and possibly modify to your needs) the presentation of a professional?

Well I do write my own patters because it just helps create the image people have of me while performing tricks.
Then after performing I think about what went right and what went wrong, and if needed adjust my patter.
Also some improvisation helps to make the situation unique.

I do not copy ready presentations but sometimes use some strong lines that really help to 'create' the illusion.

Thanks a lot for the responses so far.

There seems to be some confusion, though, as to what is exactly "patter" and what is "presentation". I am guilty myself since I made my original question rather vague.

"Patter" refers to the words we use. From what I have understood, professional comedians buy such words and use the jokes in their shows. However, they don't repeat the whole thing verbatim, but adapt them to their style. They may just use - that, again, is from Perret's book - one out of 20 jokes from an external source.

The presentation, of course, is unique to each entertainer. If you ask ten comedians to tell the same jokes, every single one will sound totally different, although it will be the same material they are based on.

Now, back to magic: Take, for instance, the ID. Most people will present it as a handling of an imaginary game of cards which then becomes real and has a single card turned over. Many people recycle the same jokes over and over again. Few people write their own gags for the cards purporting to be and even less people will not handle imaginary decks at all.

There are so many possibilities to use it - as an out, as a clairvoyance demonstration, as a demonstration of suggestion etc. But there are so few fresh ideas.

Another example is the Ambitious Card. I have just heard a SINGLE ONE unique idea that does not recycle the worn out "look, the card jumps to the top again" plot.

Finally, the reason why I am asking is because it is so difficult to come up with new and unique ideas AND put them into words that flow smoothly with the audience. And I have the feeling that there is no market for such things since I find magicians to be more obsessed about methods than about making their presentation run well. I am now running to the problem that my self-written stuff is not as good as the presentations I watch on DVDs.

I write my own patter. But I also study linguistics. I am currently working on writing an e-book on how to create 'magical' patter.

What? Yeah. I know another one.

But mine is different with a few subtleties not out there.

What? Yeah. You haven't heard of me.

How many people here use hypnotic speech in their patter? Just wondering.

Writing your own. 99% of the time ..yes. The other 1 %, yes it is possible to use patter written by someone else BUT it must then be adapted, rewritten, cut and shuffled around till it fits your style, your age and the venues you are working.

1. Gather a collection of gag books. Look out for reprints of the four Two Ronnies gag books.Go to 'The Works' if there is a branch near you. They often have a number of gag books, mostly variations of The Pub Gag Book. There is one given to me as a gift at Xmas called Man Walks Into A Bar. A pro who has wowed magicians at Conventions gets all his one liners from this. You have to adapt them, and many which are blue material will be discarded.

2. You can list the gags you like in a card index under categories, as did Bob Monkhouse. I find it better marking the gag in the books margin thus V means Vent. M means magic. I might be Irish gags etc. If you do this everytime you scan the books you'll hit on something new.Relooking at the books refreshes your memory and often sets you off on another trail.

3. Learn the handling of the trick thoroughly. Now as you rehearse it IMPROVISE the patter and then write down any which might be useful

4. After a few rehearsals, and a growing routine or presentation, you'll have a sketch out patter routine.

5 Now you go to the gag books and look for any gags you might be able to fit in. As you show a silk; are there any gags about handkerchiefs, people with colds etc. Can they be used. Again WRITE them down.

6 Assemble your rough script and try it out. hear it on a cassette recorder. DON't listen to HOW you deliver it. Just listen to the flow or non flow of the words.

7 Re write it. Go through it CUTTING IT revising it, adding any any more gags and any comedy (if it supposed to be funny) business.

8 Now it's all done with the props/apparatus. Try it in sections. ALWAYS keep a notebook and jot down any alterations etc. Keep a notebook BY YOU as you watch the TV or are reading etc. Thoughts will come to you and you WILL FORGET them if you don't make a note.

9 By now it shou;ld be taking real shape. LEARN it THOROUGHLY. Then if you are performing and something goes amiss or in Close Up someone asks or remarks something you will NOT be thrown.
Learning gives confidence., Confidence gives polish

10 The final trick is to make it sound as though it is being delivered for the first time and NOT recited like a parreot. Actors do this ever night of the year all over the world.

11 Finally. Every so often go back to it ON THE WRITTEN PAPER. Has it dated? Does it still sound 'real'? If it's a trick you haven't done for some time the WRITTEN DOWN routine is the best reminder, memory jogger you can have.

Whew!
Allen Tipton

Allen,

Thanks for your thorough and valuable post. I find it extremely useful and will incorporate your advice for the act I am currently preparing!