talkmagic.co.uk

Happy Toad wrote:Ok how about the must buy section simply being added to the review index. ie if after a vote a reviewed book or trick is decided to be a must buy, then on the index page there would be some kind of symbol next to it. In other words developing what has already been done with three items that have the word Classic after them.
What do people think about that?

This was an interesting point for discussion possibly lost in the midst of another thread, so I have re-opened it here for general discussion.

I have indeed added "Classic" after a few of the books in the index - which although is my own subjective view I doubt many would disagree with the few I have singled out for this accolade, however,

1. Should items be voted on before they are allowed to become classified as "classic" (if so by who?)
2. Should there be other classifications - "Must Buy Item", "Highly Recommended" etc. (if so what should they be, and how should they be awarded?)
3. Should the review index remain 100% non biased and therefore should the "Classic" and other classifications be removed?

Tricky!

Classic is an over used word these days - count how many tired old TV repeats are referred to as a 'Classic'. However I'm sure we could apply the word in a fairly loose sense - Metamorphosis would be a classic even if it's the Pendragons version instead of the Houdini one - both are classics IMHO.

Must Buy - would really depend on the reader and the sort of effects they like doing. My idea of a Must Buy is not necessarily going to be the same as someone else's.

Highly Recommended - might be a better one to use as long as the review can give enough details to illustrate why it's recommended. Again, a bit subjective as a Highly Recommended card trick isn't going to appeal in the same way to a rope or coin worker. (And in which category would we put things like The Xpert or Silver Bullet - without giving the secrets away? Beats me!)

On balance (nothing to do with tightrope walking) I'd suggest we leave the classifications as they are but just aim to post/edit future reviews which convey how good or otherwise the effect or trick is - the readers can make their own minds up after that.

I am in the process of designing some little flashing banners - based on your comments.

You would simply add the word "<<CLASSIC>>" in your text, and it would automatically be replaced with the little logo - much like the Emoticon smilies, i.e. if you type ":)" you get a smiley (without the quote marks)....

All will be revealed!

wont the "classic" idea just lead to every effect that anyone really likes being called a classic?... plus if someone is adept at cards and can quite easily do the "reverse armadillo double back second deal" they might term an effect "classic" where as your average hobbyist might find it impossible which would in turn negate its classic status, which would then lead to everyone falling out with eachother and the world as we know it collapsing into social and economic ruin.... probably

As it stands, people only tend to review effects which stand out from the rest. This means that we mainly seem to get reviews for the good tricks which would be recomended, and a few for tricks that the reviewer would suggest you stay away from, there aren't that many reviews representing the middle ground. This kind of means that the reviews section is already doing this kind of classification, if only in a very polarising way.

One thing I would suggest is an overall mark in the title of the review, so you know when you open the review whether it will be positive or negative.

Nick

wont the "classic" idea just lead to every effect that anyone really likes being called a classic?...

That was the worry, and I agree with what Mandrake says regarding that one persons "bust muy" is another persons "Spanish Donkey"

However, I did want the following books to be specifically highlighted - as these are always the ones that are first recommended in their relative genres.

• CARDS: The Royal Road To Card Magic
• COINS: Bobo's Book of Modern Coin Magic
• MENATALISM: 13 Steps to Mentalism
• GENERAL: Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic

I tried to steer away from adding the classic tag to any DVD's Card trick, etc on the grounds that some people would/could disagree.

So my feeling (at the moment at least) is that these few items, and possibly a few more in the future all maintain their "classic" tags (and then I get to see Seiges fancy new label).

Additionally I could start the review of with the "Classic" items under a heading of their own. (and still repeated under the relevant heading such as books).

Some other items I considered as "classic" status - were "The Raven" and "Loops" - but again we start getting into tricky ground as regards to in whose view is it a classic.

to be honest i dont see why it isnt left as is, by this i mean that the general concensus is that the items you have already marked as "classics" are just that when you consider the length of time that most of them have been around... which in my view is what makes them a classic... which means you could also add TT as a classic prop as its older than dirt!...( i REALLY wanted to say add Mandrake there... ) but i wont cos I'm being a nice guy to all today... well kinda

(Mandrake chokes back a barely concealed tear, sniffs and wipes his nose on the curtains) That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me for ages. Not surprisingly. Er, I'm working on the 'being called a classic' part rather than the 'old as dirt bit'. Not surprisingly.

... the idea I was actually trying to convey was more of a

"Classic" = 10/10
"Worth a look" = 7/10
"Could be improved" = 4/10
"Dreadful" = 1/10
"TURKEY" = 0/10

Like in magazine reviews, items are usually classified simply.
It was only a suggestion - and after reading your treasured comments, I will resign the idea to the back of the drawer, along with my slush powder...

i must admit i didnt mean that you were as old as dirt....yes you are a classic though

Thanks Mog, suddenly, the word 'Classic' takes on a whole new meaning!

Why not try the rating system for a while and see if it causes any serious disagreements and then we can revise it as we go. We already use our own judgement as to how hard or easy a trick is, so something along those lines might work. Or it might not.

(We Classics tend to speak in such nebulous ways.)

Actually Seige has a good idea there (although at a tangent to the thread)- some more visual clue as to how the reviewer rated the item being reviewed could be very appealing.

I admit that, as Nick pointed out - most items would have the top rating as these are the most likely that we bother reviewing (although it could be very useful if we did actually review a few of the poorer items as well)

Is out guidline of marks out of 10 for Effect, Quality and Value for money too confusing as I have noticed that more and more of the recent reviews don't give any marks, just "Very good"

Maybe an overall rating of 1-5 is all that is needed? Which would then fit in with Seiges graphics...