talkmagic.co.uk

Aceberserker, no one on this forum has a more appropriate name.

If only you lot knew, I'm actually fooling around with youse.
Youse have my pals and I in stitches here.

Ok, I admit that it was a bit childish of me, but you know how lads are when they are having a few cans and being morons.
I'm truly sorry to you all, this is a serious place and I do want to be a responsible member.
Forgive my childish behaviour, and the mooo comment especially.
I do respect what youse have said, it won't happen again.

all fooling aside my friend but when you do, do it again please use the international symbol emoticon we have ie
since we don't have a pulling your leg emoticon, we realy could do with some more apropiate ones, please emoticon as apropiate this will save aqny embarasment in the future on all sides.
lady of mystery loves to have a good hearted dig and will quite happily hijack any thread to do it and we love her for it as do many others but we need to know its all just in fun.

For a second I thought you were crazier than moi

I cant be having that now..

No way!! Random comment but..

Up to this very second I thought your avatar was a duck!!! I have only just realised that it is just and hat, wand and stars!! I was thinking ''Hey,whats with the duck?''

Im gonna sit down now!!

Sorry aceberserker but you say you're just having fun, but throwing personal insults at me over a PM just doesn't seem like a joke.

Wow!! Throwing personal insults at our Lady of Mystery!!

You should be stoned for that!! Look.. if your just here to be a tw*t then I suggest you look for another site..

I just want to say something as a non magician. On the one hand, I do love the old school style of magic that is done right in front of people with no viewing restrictions. It's interesting and I personally believe that it's more entertaining and myterious.

When does the mystery end for me? When a magician gets up on stage. Once they have a controlled environment it's just so much easier to deceive the audience. Does it make their majic any worse? No I don't think so. It just seems logically obvious to me that the more aspects the magician controls, the less interesting it is. It makes it too obvious for me to jump to conclusions, being somewhat of a cynic, and pin it on a stage set up and other such things.

I think of Chris Angel as just the evolution of stage performance. With his camera tricks he can accomplish some of the same things that a stage accomplishes. Sometimes I feel like his tricks are a cop out like the hallway one. When all you do is step in front of the camera, it's pretty obvious to me that the trick is performed while I can't see anything. Is this any different than draping a cloth over a cage to make a tiger disapear? I don't think so. Both involve the magician taking control of what the viewer can see. That's why I prefer simple tricks performed in front of me. Yes they're not flashy but I know that what I saw was the result of a magician working hard with sleight of hand to hide things from me. Chris' stuff seems just as controlled as a stage magician to me and I respect him just as much as a stage magician for that.

Interesting discussion, although I do realize that the thread has been tucked away for a while. I haven't read everything here, but I would still like to add my two cents...

This seems to have turned into a discussion about what counts as magic and what doesn't. WHO has the right to call him or herself a magician. It is, of course, not easy to draw a line there.

I think I agree with the lot that says that in most cases, actors and "simple" camera tricks are not a very good tool when performing magic. I think that, a large part of making tricks look like magic, is to show how fair the conditions are. What happens should seem to be impossible! I mean that's the basic concept of magic, isn't it? And well - if you can use actors and advanced camera editing, then nothing is impossible. Just look at movies - if we see an actor being killed in one movie, it's not magic to see him or her appear in another movie a few months later. The audience knows that the film makers goal isn't to perform something that seems impossible, they're only forced to because what ever story they want to tell requires that a person gets killed, eg.

When we watch magic in a live situation, we know there are no camera tricks, simply because there is no camera. In stage magic we can perhaps suspect that someone picked up from the audience is in fact a stooge, but if someone just starts to perform a trick in an everyday situation, we can usually exclude that too.

On television, we cannot assume anything. After all, those movies I talked about above do run on the same screen from time to time. To make the magic shows seem even the slightest interesting, the audience must be able to feel that the performance somehow differentiates from "hollywood magic", otherwise the whole idea of magic really becomes completely, utterly pointless.

I think you know this: many people who watch magic on TV do assume that everything that they cannot understand is made with trick photography and/or actors. You all know how even the simplest trick can seem amazing if you don't know the secret. The "FAKE!" explanation is near at hand all the time. Just look at some comments on youtube... I saw someone proposing an explanation for Healed and sealed, suggesting that the can was switched when it goes out of the picture for only a few frames. And well, really, from the audience's perspective, that often does seem like the only possible way of doing it. In fact, maybe it WOULD be less of a hassle to perform it that way on camera...

Anyway, if a magician performs one single trick that is "obviously" done with people cooperating to some extent, or the video being edited, then it is logical to assume that he does use that same versatile tool for each and every other trick. It follows Occam's razor - find the explanation that assumes as little as possible - well if we are forced to assume actors in one trick, then really, that's the easiest explanation for nearly everything that happens. And suddenly there just is no reason to keep watching anymore. A collection of half-assed special effects, without any story or anything keeping them together - what's the fun in that?

So well, I guess what I try to say is that what Criss Angel performs here is, in my eyes, a sure fire way to remove all the magicness out of the magic. Or perhaps remove the effect from the effect.

The workings of the trick in question seem more like a nice concept for a lowbudget movie SFX, rather than a magic illusion.

Fabulous! I will have to break out Mindfreak Season One again.

I don't think Criss took the magic out of the trick, I think the first post did. I'd say 75% of people don't know about stooges and they're the audience Criss is aiming at. So 75% of people couldn't explain it other than magic. But then very "un-magically" they can search Google and find out from this forum what really happened. Criss didn't do anything other than amaze a lot of people, until they read this forum.

Josh Clarke wrote:Criss didn't do anything other than amaze a lot of people, until they read this forum.

Same for George Lucas.

In fact, Yoda is a much better magician than Angel. Let's see Angel whip out a light saber.

But, if Lucas and Angel got together, they'd make Angel a greater magician than the likes of any that has been seen in the history of man.

I just love special effects as magic.

Mike.

Hello Everyone,

I love Criss Angel and his style of magic. Goodness, we are all magicians in one manner or another and we shouldn't go attacking others. What is wrong with supporting each other and helping each other?

I think that Criss Angel is wonderful for magic and the general public loves him. I think we should give him the respect that he deserves because he's doing something very few of us will ever achieve. And hey, we should all honor each other. You all know that in your hearts. And, if you don't for some reason, then simply go and spend more time in the Pink And Fluffy Thread!!! It sounds like we all need a hug.

Love,

Amanda Angeli

Yeah what Amanda said ... plus Criss Angel is the only magician to have a WEEKLY television show. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I am I doubt any magician has had 3 seasons of a weekly show. Not to mention the first 3 weeks on the current season had 2 new episodes back to back. If I had to come up with that much material, I'd probably use a lot of camera blocking and stooges as well.