Faith Section

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Postby connor o'connor » Sep 7th, '06, 18:37

Hi there
Just to let you know, I am a trustee of a local church and am interested in kids magic
Here in england it seems that magic, especialy for kids owes most of its roots to theatre and pantomime, clowns now thought of as kids entertainers originated from naughty characters who used physical and practical jokes from as far back as the 1800's.
However in america childrens magic was largely spread by the church who used it to teach lessons and storys with moral or biblical meaning.
The rev.Woolston produced a book in 1910 called 'Object lessons with magical and mechanical effects' which is belived to be the first book on performing magic for children. Soon two other manuscripts with the rev.Lane and Rodeheaver were published, It was much later in 1939 that the first secular script on kids magic was published. Between these dates church leaders travelled teaching other church leaders how to perform the tricks and so it could be argued that the church was the biggest influence in magic in america in recent times, especialy as it was these early manuscripts that 'set the tone', also that most of us have our first magical interests stired by a childrens entertainer.
With regard to a christian debate on ethiics if you go to (no its not a joke) you will find the fellowship of christian magicians. unfortunatly I do not have any knowlage of other faiths magic websites.
With regard for this site I do not belive that a seperate faith section is required. If ethics or faith become a problem with a trick then this should be bought up by someone in the relevent thread. For example if an inocent trick is seen to be maybee offensive to the hindu community then I would wish to know so as to remove or change it if required. Full discusions on religion should be conducted on other web sites, there are plenty of them :)

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Re: Faith Section

Postby Kolisar » Sep 7th, '06, 22:47

gunnarkr wrote:
EckoZero wrote:(snip)...maybe a "Faith" section of he forum would be a good place to post all such Magic/Religion posts?

Sorry, but I think this is a very bad idea, because most wars in the world have started because of religion. This area should be free from unnessecary arguments. Let's stick to magic and related matters, eh?

I think a Faith section would cause nothing but problems. The easiest way to start a heated argument is to discuss religion or politics. Unless we want that section to degrade into uncivil discourse, I would advise against it.

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Postby bananafish » Sep 8th, '06, 13:44

My first thoughts on this is that it was a rubbish idea, for many of the reasons already stated. I am still not convinced and think Nick was right when he said it would open a can of worms.

However, there are some interesting facts that would add weight to the argument that it could be a good idea.

As secretary of the Ipswich Magical Soc., I get to talk to many magicians from many societies. At Ipswich we have several members of clergy as members and several more people who are "something" to do with the church. In fact it seems that it is the current trend for clergymen and women to use magic to assist in teaching their faith. It would seem that this is also quite common at other societies as well.

So maybe somewhere where discussuions on how and what magic is suitable for different sermons could in fact be quite useful?

Having said that...

I think a Faith section would cause nothing but problems. The easiest way to start a heated argument is to discuss religion or politics
You can't argue with that.

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The Fellowship of Christian Magicians (UK)

Postby astonmagic » Jun 7th, '07, 11:07


Hello folks. May I introduce myself to you.

I am the webmaster for The Fellowship of Christian Magicians (UK). We are not a bunch of crackpots as some folk may think but Christian entertainers from all denominations of the Christian faith.

Many of us use our performing skills to illustrate Bible messages in churches and also at outside events.

Our web site has a growing free resources area where people can read and download simple routines, puppet scripts and other ideas that can be used in Christian outreach.

We also have an online magic forum similar to this and also a members library of magic books in electronic format.

Many of our members such as myself are full time entertainers but we also have amateurs, semi pro's and members of the clergy as members.

Each year we have our annual convention which runs for five days. This is possibly the best magic convention in the UK as we all stay at the same place, enjoy all our meals together and have magic lectures, dealers and competitions as well.

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Postby themagicwand » Jun 9th, '07, 00:39


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Postby gunnarkr » Jun 9th, '07, 01:19

astonmagic... this posting of yours belongs in the introductions forum, not here.

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Postby leviticus » Jun 9th, '07, 10:40

I really see this Idea as the previously mentioned "can of worms"
of epic preportions.
This board maybe a board for magicians but anyone can look at it.
In a world where riots and personal attacks happen because Mr A quoted from Mr B's holy book or someone disagree's with a cartoon or off hand comment. Does anyone think this topic would create more good than bad for the board.
With the current trend of stupid , ridiculous , offensive and down right nasty posts we are getting I for one do not think we could trust everyone to treat this sensitive matter with the academic respect it deserves.

A true story which I hope will be seen as comparable

A friend of mine started a website
It was a local website made up from local contibutions and photos
A National Paper took interst in some of the comments
They asked to used some material on the site
He replied he would need time time to ask permission of the posters as some of the stuff was controversial
The newspaper got fed up of waiting and ran what they wanted misquotes and outright lies for most of the article
My friend got enormous backlash in his home town.
When he asked for a printed appology they said see you in court
As an average working class Joe he hadn't the time or money to do this
He closed his site down and later moved from the town.

If this topic does go ahead it should be a private forum for proven members.
I'm not trying to tell people what to do I am just trying to protect the board from trouble and closure . Its a mad world people we* are not polite enough or mature enough to discuss this in a free open forum.

* collective ( the human race in general )

Just my 2 cents

Leviticus 19:28 ( yeah thats my full name not a quote for this topic )

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Postby Lord Freddie » Jun 9th, '07, 10:58

Can't we just start a thread about Jesus in the 'About That Magician' section an be done with it?

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Postby chryles » Jun 9th, '07, 13:30

Lord Freddie wrote:Can't we just start a thread about Jesus in the 'About That Magician' section an be done with it?

apparently he wasn't that good.

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Postby Lawrence » Jun 9th, '07, 13:37

gunnarkr wrote:astonmagic... this posting of yours belongs in the introductions forum, not here.

certainly one of the short lived "posts that made you giggle" thread.

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