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Postby magikmax » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:13 pm

themagicwand wrote:Just to put this into perspective - has anybody who works with the general public (ie performing magic for them whether in a pro or amateur basis) ever had anyone say to you "I know how that's done - I saw it on YouTube?" Because I certainly never have and I'm out working 4 nights a week.

Exactly. Although my wife is convinced that David Copperfield flies with a combination of giant magnets and industrial hairdryers, so there's lots of weird and wonderful explanations out there, but no, I've not come across YouTube yet.

In saying that, I try to avoid playing to the 'youtube' age group, I'm either young kids professionally, or friends and family who are older and generally don't use 'new fangled' things like t'internet.

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Postby Lord Freddie » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:16 pm

Despite people watching these Masked Magician shows, the only things they seem to remember are ones that they can do easily. If someone is not that interested in magic but want to learn a few "tricks", they will be turned off by something that seems too hard or complicated.
The 'voodoo ash' effect is the most common one that people have told me that they know. I should imagine their little minds saw that on the Street Magic Expose show and thought "That's easy!" and they stored that in their bonce and forgot the rest of it.

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Postby Misanthropy » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:21 pm

maybe someone needs to ask ellusionist and penguin (and any other online magic shop) to make the customer read a disclaimer that they have to agree to not expose it on youtube (performing it on youtube is fine as long as they've practised it good enough not to give it away) and remind them that if this kind of things keeps going on then magic will become a underground secretive art which would be a great shame

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Postby Lady of Mystery » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:22 pm

I think Freddie's right and that's why exposure sites don't really bother me at all. People might remember the odd trick but aren't going to remember or even want to remember anything that takes the time to learn.

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Postby Lord Freddie » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:30 pm

There are things about football in the newspaper, on telly and on the radio but I couldn't tell you a thing about it as it doesn't interest me at all.

I had a look in Waterstones the other day and under 'games and hobbies' (GRRRR! :evil: ) were 2 copies of RRTCM, Encyclopedia of Card Tricks, Paul Zenon's Street Magic and a kiddy beginners set with props.
It's all out there if people REALLY want to find out but most prefer to just be entertained. I don't know many laypeople who look at annoying kids explaining tricks on YouTube, if they look for magic it will generally be Copperfield, Daniels, Brown etc. Something professional and entertaining.

If people really want to find something out they will. There was someone I performed (SOH) coin vanishes for, did watch stopping etc and they were the sort of "know it all" that wanted to get one better on people.
He came up to me (after he had obviously been searching on the internet and some sort of exposure site) and smugly said "Raven."

At this time I wasn't unfortunate enough to own a Raven, so was willing to puy myself under intense test conditions (no jacket and rolled sleeves) and performed the same effects.

He was sure baffled I tells ya!

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Postby magikmax » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:32 pm

Exactly. As YouTube so effortlessly demonstrates, we live in an age where the young magicians don't even bother remembering how to perform the tricks properly, or care to take any time over the trick's presentation, and likewise, most lay people just aren't as obsessive and geeky as we are about magic, and really don't remember much of what they see, assuming they bother watching in the first place.

Still, it's a shame that some of the old classic props, tricks and sleights are so readily available to youtubers. It's sad that magicians have spent decades practising and respecting their art, to have the illusion they created shattered in a stupid video by a stupid 11 year old kid.

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Postby Al Doty » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:01 pm

Lord Freddie hit the nail on the head. Most laypeople forget what they saw and when they see it performed again they just marvel at it. A competant magician and a better presentation will produce a better effect that they won't recognize,. I go to lectures and I;m in the know about magic but, I buy the lecture notes because I won't remember everything I saw only hours ago. So why worry too much, they will fade out and you will be going strong. Your friend will guess how you did it but, you have an arsenal of slieghts to amaze him with.

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Postby Marvo Marky » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:55 pm

moodini wrote:typing into google search half-naked and eating a bowl of cereal doesn't comitt you to anything.

Yes it does, especially if you live in a communal household.

But I strongly disagree with those who say that your presentation is at fault if you get sussed. It does make a MASSIVE difference, but if someone has seen a trick on Youtube and wishes to pull you on it, then there's very little you can do. Unless you have the wit of Oscar Wilde (which I don't) and can turn it to your advantage, or you have a vast performing experience (which I don't).

And Lord Freddie, I can relate to your Raven thingy.. I've just had one of those "I saw it on YouTube" incidents, performing CMH of all things. I normally never get pulled on this; I dress it up as an experiment in science (it fits with the day job) which gives enough smokescreen. Some rubbish about the molecules of rubber breaking and reforming.

But on this occasion I got called out. He was correct, obviously, but I just denied it and repeated the science patter and did broken/restored band.
Yeah he was mystified, and I actually think it made the effect for everyone else a little bit stronger.

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Postby Lenoir » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:40 pm

I am under 20, and I would never and never have or wanted to expose any trick. Theres always some plumbum who comes into college with him completely fresh bikes pulling off terribly put together XCM and impressing everyone. At a game of cards at lunchbreak, he was spinning htem around and whatnot and i said "can you do a nice and proper riffle shuffle?" what happened next was the worst chunky mishandle cards i have ever seen. Im not sure those cards would ever be bent back into position!

I will admit to a few years ago looking at several youtube videos for tutorials and such but eventually realised that the RRTCM was the way forward. Since i have looked at youtube twice for help. Once with the classic force and again for the classic pass or invisible pass. Sometimes a book can't show you well enough and i was relucatant to buy a DVD just for these smalll yet invaluable sleights.

Let's face it. Those stupid kids whos hands barely hold the cards spinning them around with their shoddy webcam and scummy t'shirts are never going to make any money via magic, or even get a decent response from your average spectator. They will forever be banished to youtube and their family home.

My rule is..until you've conquered RRTCM or similar texts and are confident with a few basic but decent tricks, there is no NEED for any kind of XCM.


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Postby Famuus » Mon May 25, 2009 5:33 pm

Peter Marucci wrote:Why get all excited about any ONE site that exposes magic?

After all, there are dozens of sites on the Internet that do it.

And let's not forget some of the top names in magic also have exposed tricks: Dai Vernon, Harry Blackstone Sr., Tom Mullica, Mac King, Penn and Teller, etc.

And what about public libraries, where anyone with a library card can walk in and check out a book containing dozens of magic secrets.

And then there are magic magazines, which -- weekly, monthly, or quarterly -- give away secrets from the cost of a subscription.

And let's not forget magic shops themselves, where anyone with a few bucks can buy the secret to just about any magic trick.

And then there are magic clubs, where secrets are freely exposed.

And don't forget the worst offenders of all in the world of exposure: The bad magicians!

And . . . but you get the idea!


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Postby MagicalSmithy » Mon May 25, 2009 6:14 pm

I agree with the other lad on here bout not all young magicians are exposers..... I tend to expose myself yes but never a secret of magic....

One time I was practicing in my tent when a um Lay who new I was practicing slipped her phone in without me being aware and recorded me doing mcdonalds aces from the magicians view and also as i thought I was lone i was not so worried about visualy re setting and starting over.

Much to my shock I had an email when I returned home and she had published it to youtube as something like great card trick like a man I went and told her mum and dad she removed the video and now I refuse to perform for her.

On this note I will hold my hands up for a beating...I learnt how to make a card appear and disapear from a proffesional magicians exposure video on youtube.... at the end he mentioned the royal road to card magic for anyone truly interested and I have said book next to me as I type. I now have a true love for the magical arts and will not expose my secrets.

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Postby madvillainy » Mon May 25, 2009 10:58 pm

This site sounds fairly tame compared to the hundred - literally, hundreds - of forums out there that offer full books and DVDs for download. I did a quick Google and on one site alone I totted up about a grand's worth of information being passed around for nothing. The out of print Derren Brown books, The Devil's Picturebook, Lennart Green's tapes, Drawing Room Deceptions, Corinda, Anneman, all this stuff is freely available if you know where to look. If it's ever been made digital, chances are you can get it for nothing.

Welcome to the internet.

Edit: Decided to set myself a challenge and see how much stolen goods I could find illegal downloads for in ten minutes. I found:

- The Devil's Picturebook
- Get Nyman
- Pure Effect and Absolute Magic
- Green Magic volumes 1-7
- Everything Luke Jermay has ever published except for Telling Tales and Leading Reading
- The Books Of Wonder (which really surprised me)
- Corinda and Anneman
- Losander's Art of Levitation
- Most of the books Banachek has published
- Card College volume 1-4
- The first ten issues of The Crimp, along with Cut Controls and Cards On The Table
- A Herb Zarrow DVD

These were on three different websites, with massive dump threads for magic links - it's basically page after page after page of stolen goods. I could go on. Now obviously I didn't download any of it because I'm not a thieving scoundrel, and frankly I don't think this stuff is any better than tipping over Alakazam with a gun and a balaclava, but if you're really worried about exposure, this stuff is the real problem. Those YouTube tutorials don't mean a thing.

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Postby Lenoir » Tue May 26, 2009 7:41 am

A wee bit of looking finds someone offering, for free, books by the following:

A. K. Dutt
A. Roterburg
Al Baker
Al Koran
Al Mann
Aldo Colombini
Allan Pease
Andrew Mayne
Barrie Richardson
Basil Horfitz
Ben Rayot
Bill Tar
Billy McComb
Bob Cassidy
Boris Wild
Bruce Amato
Bruce Bernstein
Burling Hull
Christopher Milbourne
Chuck Hickok
Dai Vernon
Dan Garett
Dan Harlan
Dan Tong
daniel Garcia
Darwin Ortiz
Dave Buck
Davig Berglas
David Forrest
David Ginn
David Harkey
David Hoy
David Regal
David Williamson
Derren Brown
Dick Jacobs
The Digital Pabular
Docc Hilford
Don Allen
Ed Marlo
Eddie Joseph
Ellis Stanyon
Eugene Burger
Francis Tabary
Frank Garcia
Fred Kaps
Gary Darwin
Gary Ouellet
George Anderson
Gordon Bean
Greg Webb
Guy Holligworth
Harlan Tarbell
Harry Houdini
Harry Lorayne
Herb Dewey
Ian Rowland
J. H. Burlingame
Jack Miller
Jason Alford
Jay Sankey
Jean Hugard
Jeff Ezell
Jerry Sadowitz
Jim Pace
John Bannon
John Carney
John Lovick
John Scarne
Jon Racherbaumer
Juan Tamariz
Karl Fulves
Kenton Knepper
Kirk Charles
Larry Becker
Lee Earle
Lee Scott
Lennart Green
Leo Behnke
Lewis Ganson
Lou Gallo
Luke Jermay
Mark Strivings
Max Maven
Meir Yedid
Michael Ammar
Michael Close
Michael Skinner
Milbourne Christopher
Nick Trost
Ormond McGill
Paul Daniels
Paul Harris
Paul Osborne
Peter Duffie
Peter Warlock
Prof. Hoffman
Paul Wilson
Ralph Read
Randy Charach
Richard Busch
Richard Kaufman
Richard Osterlind
Richard Tenace
Richard Webster
Rick Maue
Ricky Jay
Robert Harbin
Robert Neale
Robert Nelson
Roberto Giobbi
Ron Bauer
Scott Guinn
Simon Aronson
Simon Lovell
Stephen Minch
Stephen Tucker
Steve Beam
Steve Bedwell
Steve Fearson
Steven Youell
T. A. Waters
Ted Lesley
The Jinx
The Learned Pig Project
The MAgic Wand
The Sphinx
Tom Osborne
Tommy Wonder
Tony Shiels
Troy Hooser
Val Andrews
Will Dexter

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Postby Lawrence » Tue May 26, 2009 7:49 am

You missed off John Thompson

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Postby mrgoat » Tue May 26, 2009 1:41 pm

Lenoir wrote:A wee bit of looking finds someone offering, for free, books by the following:

SNIP piracy list

Um, you realise that putting that list makes it even easier for someone to find the torrents with those in by simply cutting and pasting the first few names into google...



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