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why not just stick with the CT or s**mi, if it works? It probably has the same impact on the audience in this situation.

That's right, why not just do that? The audience doesn't know what a swami is, this is a perfect example of worrying more about methodology than impact on the audience- which is what it's ALL about.
I doubt very much it was a psychological force, but the method I'm thinking of is probably quite unpopular with most mentalists, despite being an incredibly powerful principle and it allows for the above effects to be replicated exactley. But that is not to say that psychological forces and cold reading aren't valuable, get good at cold reading, psychological forces, hellstromism and you'll wonder why you even bother 'cheating'.

Oooh, I'm all interested now, can you tell me the technique you are talking about through PM?

That would interest me, too. I dont like tricksing that much. For example im doing a show, i cant always work with a billet and a swami. At least the second time it gets boring, you know. I need some goodies. Telling them into the face without any probs what they are thinking of would be explosive.

psychic readings are interesting, but the readings are very unexact. I dont want to tell a mid aged women that shes worrying about the future only because every midaged woman does. Thats boring. She could read that in every magazine...

i want to give exact predictions, and if thats possible i want to learn it, so...please write me a pm with references for that routine you are talking about. That would be very great. It would help me to do better shows

It's simple and you won't like it.

I agree with Lenoir. You are in that state of mind where you are believing in magic, on a futile quest for some supernatural and magical technique that doesn't exist. If you keep that state of mind, magic will become too painful and dissapointing, when in fact it is the exact opposite. For now, you can replicate anything you need to on that front with a swami.

Hmmm... Now im a litle sad. I know tricks are not as glamorous they seem to be. I like that. I thought to get any help...it seems i have to buy lots of expensive books to get that routine. Im a magician for some years now and dont understand why you dont help me to get a better one. If you know whats the trick why dont you help me getting books about that routines. I know tricks are fools...

Tricks are always not magicaly anymore when you know how easy they work. Thats the point. Thats what the audience make scream. If there is no special routine and the trick works, there must be tricks or books i am able to buy. My only question was if someone could give me a hint which trick or which book works with the same routine. I dont want to buy too much things i wont need searching for that special one, so you could help me if you gave me a hint which trick to buy which works same...

It is only boring if you are a lousy performer. To you its all going to be boring because you know the secret. The secret to making it not boring is simple, first engage your audience because it is really about them, not you. Its like sales customer satisfaction will keep them coming back and very little of customer satisfaction is in the merchandise. Obvioulsy you need something that works, part of your job as a magician is to make it work. The tools don't make a house, the people who know how to use the tools make the house.

Yes looking at somebody and knowing exactly what is going on in their head would be cool, and explosive as you say. It would also be cool if my employer turned around tomorrow and told me I have done such a great job that they are just going to give me 2 million dollars so go home and enjoy the rest of your life. But that just doesn't happen.

It seems that nobody here is able to name the exact effect you want. Sorry, but maybe it's a private effect that was never made available.

If you want to give an "exact prediction", there aren't many options. You can know the answer in advance, or you can write it down afterwards and make it seem like it was written in advance, or you can somehow find it out in real time. The same is true of "psychic" reading.

The best thing you can do for now is to read and study the standard books on mentalism, such as Corinda's 13 Steps, Annemann's various works, Fulves' Self-Working Mental Magic, etc. Also have a look at Craig Browning's wonderful essay on "Becoming a Mentalist".

You asked where Derren Brown gets his ideas. He gets them from these same books. There's no occult inner circle of super mentalism secrets. The workings of mentalism are generally very simple and boring, even more than in magic. It's all performance style and showmanship.

gasmann001 wrote:
i want to give exact predictions, and if thats possible i want to learn it, so...please write me a pm with references for that routine you are talking about. That would be very great. It would help me to do better shows

Swami...

Swami...

exactley! Yes, I have been talking about a different, slightly cleaner effect (open prediction) but there is NOTHING, it can do that a swami can't. I'm not telling because I want you to go and waste your money- but as long as you study mentalism carefully as has already been said, it's all out there and you will come across it- it can be expensive, but there's no point going out searching for one specific thing, let things come your way. I cannot stress how important that is.
You have enough material in the 13 steps to convince people you are a real mind reader, enough to freak people out and have them screaming- trust me from experience. With a little thinking, origionality there is enough in there to last several careers- it is ALL and I mean ALL down to how you frame the trick, the theme you put to it, the way you build tension- you can't do that with a bunch of 'secrets' you need experience.
Another note, Cold reading is NOT about telling a middle aged woman she is worrying about money- it is about making people think that you know everything about them and making it seem specific to them, make it seem as though you are telling them things you could not know- and once again we come back to showmanship and performance- that's what it's all about- don't disregard cold reading. I am warning you, all of the best are experts at it.

The Banacek effect mentioned earlier sounds like pre show with a Svgali word Deck .. dual reality and all that

i guess you´re right. i like showmanship and can very easily make great reactions with an simple center t**r. burning the billet, telling sth. like "imagine the smoke goes up and with your thoughts in my head..." great reactions. as i remember that was how i learned mentalism. i saw a simple center t**r in tv but didnt konw it was. later when i performed that myself i wondered about the reactions... if they knew

i guess i will create some own presentations

Wonderful! But by presentation that includes the little psychological subtleties (oh, if you want something to spend your money on, or you haven't got it yet, track down banachek's book- it is one of those rare performance changing books)- for example, I normally ask someone to think of a number between 1-10 and I write down what it is (not hard) before they say and then, I get them to think of a word which I then get them to write on a billet- 'so they don't try change it like some people do' and then again, after 'mind reading' I write something down with my pencil, put what I think their word is on the table and get them to tell me their thought. once I have established that they don't change their mind and built up the pattern what I am writing with my pencil is unchanged and getting them to tell me their thought first, I then hit them with the swami and I can do it with just thoughts. Simple, but those of the types of things worth working on.

That sounds pretty mind blowing but one question. Which s**mi do you usually use. Once ive ordered the plasticthumb but i dont like it, because pocketwriting is too dificult with it. Now i ordered the nailwriter. I quess its better to handle, and you could write more clearly.

hope you understand my english. I quess id prefer to read more english literature and watch more english movies...