Close up mentalism

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Re: Close up mentalism

Postby Part-Timer » Apr 27th, '11, 23:13



DESmond TINY wrote:So you very helpful and knowledgeable people what would be the BEST material for very clean, very strong close up mentalism?


Bit of a magic cliché, but whatever works well for you. And guess who the only person who can find that out is!

Seriously (well, more seriously), there is just a near-overwhelming tidal wave of mentalism around, especially since it came into vogue, oh, about the time Derren Brown got really big. :lol: There is so much to choose from, that I almost view any specific suggestions of effects as almost pointless. Bruce's one (first suggestion) is very good, though.

I think you should invest in trying out a few swami gimmicks of different sorts, and practice that part of 13 Steps. It's one of the most versatile devices out there, and perfect for the sort of effects you want to achieve. One method for many different effects.

Also, learn a good peek (or tear). You're already working on that!

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Postby Ted » Apr 27th, '11, 23:15

I think you should give 13 steps another try.

EDIT: For some reason Part Timer's post was not visible to me when I wrote the above. I agree with him.

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Postby TonyB » Apr 27th, '11, 23:22

The two best resources for cold reading are Julian Moore's quick palm reading system, and Paul Voodini's Palm Reading for Magicians. Either (or both) will get you doing readings within hours of starting.

In close-up situations Sign Language by Doug Dyment will allow you to tell someone their star sign. Combine that with a swami gimmick or some pocket writing, and a good centre tear, and you are good to go.

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Postby Part-Timer » Apr 27th, '11, 23:37

DESmond TINY wrote:The sort of cold reading I'm looking for is in a mentalism contest a good example is in an effect called 'cold emotion' someone thinks of an emotion - after secretly figuring it out - then you cold read about what sort of situation they were in when experiencing that emotion. This sort of thing is what I would use cold reading for.


I'm not familiar with this effect, but I'll take it at face value. As I understand it, in the trick, you will actually know the emotion. However, you want to be able to, for want of a better description, read their minds. That sort of thing is possible (kind of), but it will take a long while to develop. In some respects, this isn't cold reading at all.

I am going to make a potentially controversial suggestion - Richard Osterlind's Mind Over Matter. It's a rather odd book. To a magician who is familiar with Richard's "standard" mentalism work, it might come across as a con for shut-eyes, but I think Richard is being serious. He plays down the trickery element of his performances (or does he? - I have never seen one of his proper shows) and so the book can read as being a little disingenuous. I actually think this book would have been torn to shreds had he aimed it at magicians (and mentalists). I nearly didn't buy it, but I found it very interesting. You must keep an open mind, though!

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Postby DESmond TINY » Apr 27th, '11, 23:53

This is some good advice. I didn't think of it like that. I'll find a good peek and use a swami more then. combined with some cold reading I'll have a fair few effects. Back to good old thirteen steps it is then :). Also what would you say is the best of bob cassidy's material to get? Cos I understand he is some what of a legend in mentalism

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Postby Flood » Apr 28th, '11, 02:26

If you are looking for quick tricks without being directed towards books then I suggest:

ID(I know you don't want card tricks but this is as direct and quick to the point as youd want)

Director's cut, again another card trick but is generally not perceived as a card trick in the eyes of a spectator.It's a good utility prop which will allow you to do several routines and create your own.It uses movie posters as the faces of the cards.

Buy a small dictionary and gimmick it for a book test and word revelation.Simple and effective but i suggest as a worker pocket space is an issue,therefor you could gimmick a smaller thinner book that YOU are interested in.I keep it books that I'm genuinly interested in.I always try use performing for strangers an excuse for them to get to know what I'm like with my interests and manner etc.

Peek wallet,Psypher(I dont have Psypher but there's good review about)or any other peek device as an alternative.

I'm not sure if it's props or dvds/books that your looking for in particular but I hope that helped

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Postby Beardy » Apr 28th, '11, 02:50

Forget about BIP Book, forget directors cut (Sorry Simon!), forget cold reading, and forget reader of minds (Sorry Paul!). All of the above is good, but directors cut and BIP Book are one trick/prop ponies, and reader of minds and cold reading I don't think is what you are after.

First thing to get is switchcraft. It is the best value thing you will ever buy. You will have no visible props, and you can do it absolutely anywhere at any time using napkins, business cards, whatever.

Second thing to get is Derren Brown's Evening of Wonders DVD. Watch him perform "20 Questions". Practice one or two techniques in Switchcraft, then go out and perform the "20 Questions" routine to your mates.

After doing that, buy Andy Nyman's "Get Nyman" DVD set. Nearly all of the material on that can be done for close up, but I want you to pay particular attention to "Magician's Graphology". Practice it and perform it.

So far, you have a couple of fun dvds where you can see two top mentalists perform good stuff using very, very simple methods, with (on one of the DVDs) the explanations also. You also have Switchcraft, afterwhich you won't need anything else to perform a wide range of routines.

Now buy 13 Steps to Mentalism. It is very dry and the newer you are (normally) the more boring it is. But after you have had the first few things to tickle your senses, you will be able to understand it a lot more. If you are already adept with cards then you should have no issue with a lot of the routines in here.

That is my personal advice. Take it or leave it. This is very sound advice, and it is a logical progression. People may say "Get 13 steps first" or "why perform derren's 20 questions make up your own presentation" but be realistic. You will be new to this and need to get the orgasm to keep you addicted, thus the performance after switchcraft with a routine that you know will work.

If you don't take my advice, no worries. But just remember, I've been in your position too! And I'm very blunt!

Oh, and don't forget your deck of cards. A simple card force and revelation, combined with a decent presentation, gets me a sh!t load of bookings.

Love

Chris
xxx

"An amazing mind manipulator" - Uri Geller
"I hope to shake your hand before I die" - Derren Brown
"That was mightily impressive - I have absolutely no clue how you did that" - Tim Minchin
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Postby BrucUK » Apr 28th, '11, 08:07

Chris/Beardy is correct - BIP and Director's Cut are "one trick ponies". However, they are (when performend well), very entertaining and magical "mentalism" (possibly mental magic...?) ponies. If, however, you are for example, basing a routine around "mind reading", then it's perfectly acceptable (IMHO) to use a one trick pony. I have seen how good they are at "projecting" numbers (using Powerball 60), so now I want to see how good they are at projecting "pictures".
It's all about framing what you do into a cohesive performance.

BIP and Director's Cut are simple to learn, and are walkaround, the original requirements, and both rely on your ability to act/present.

This thread already contains some fantastic ideas - Switchcraft is one of the best purchases I ever made, and Elliot keeps on adding more sections to it and distributing them to existing owners for nothing, (at about v18 or something now...) I do not perform in this style anymore, so not for me, but I was merely offering some a suggestion to "get you in the way of thinking" for this type of performance.

It may seem "unnatural" to have a book like BIP, but that is true about most things we do! If it is the "purity" that appeals, then peeks, switches, Swami and a few billets are probably the way to go.

The Billets section of 13-Steps is the only section I enjoyed, and "Artful Mentalism" by Cassidy is one of my "Go -to" books when I am looking for ideas and inspiration, not necessarily "routines". He has a lovely take on a book test which you could perform with a softback dictionary - all you need to be able to do is one of the first card sleights we all learn.

For work based aorund the emotions, you could look at some Asian Face Reading techniques, and then link it into your routines - possibly more appropriate than some reading methods?

Good luck in the search.
Bruce

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Postby the stackman » Apr 28th, '11, 08:27

Beardy wrote:Forget about BIP Book, forget directors cut (Sorry Simon!), forget cold reading, and forget reader of minds (Sorry Paul!). All of the above is good, but directors cut and BIP Book are one trick/prop ponies, and reader of minds and cold reading I don't think is what you are after.

First thing to get is switchcraft. It is the best value thing you will ever buy. You will have no visible props, and you can do it absolutely anywhere at any time using napkins, business cards, whatever.

Second thing to get is Derren Brown's Evening of Wonders DVD. Watch him perform "20 Questions". Practice one or two techniques in Switchcraft, then go out and perform the "20 Questions" routine to your mates.

After doing that, buy Andy Nyman's "Get Nyman" DVD set. Nearly all of the material on that can be done for close up, but I want you to pay particular attention to "Magician's Graphology". Practice it and perform it.

So far, you have a couple of fun dvds where you can see two top mentalists perform good stuff using very, very simple methods, with (on one of the DVDs) the explanations also. You also have Switchcraft, afterwhich you won't need anything else to perform a wide range of routines.

Now buy 13 Steps to Mentalism. It is very dry and the newer you are (normally) the more boring it is. But after you have had the first few things to tickle your senses, you will be able to understand it a lot more. If you are already adept with cards then you should have no issue with a lot of the routines in here.

That is my personal advice. Take it or leave it. This is very sound advice, and it is a logical progression. People may say "Get 13 steps first" or "why perform derren's 20 questions make up your own presentation" but be realistic. You will be new to this and need to get the orgasm to keep you addicted, thus the performance after switchcraft with a routine that you know will work.

If you don't take my advice, no worries. But just remember, I've been in your position too! And I'm very blunt!

Oh, and don't forget your deck of cards. A simple card force and revelation, combined with a decent presentation, gets me a sh!t load of bookings.


well i am a card-nerd but if i were to perform on anything like a professional basis i would consider mentalism as an approach.

i will follow the above advice to the letter.

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Postby Stephen Ward » Apr 28th, '11, 08:30

I must agree that switchcraft is essential and something that i use material from.

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Postby Alec Burns » Apr 28th, '11, 08:42

I think that the Bip book plays very strong when performed to up to five people at the same table. Yes it's a prop but you only use the book for the first minute and then it can be put away. Reading five people at the same time for different information is all down to how you dress it up.

Don't underestimate the power of this little book. Like most things, it's what YOU make of it!

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Postby Jobasha » Apr 28th, '11, 09:08

DESmond TINY wrote:Aha thanks. I don't like this BIP book it just seems unnatural to have a book like that... but once again thank you.


That's why you combine it with other effects to make it believable. I've played around with several different set ups, but this has been one of my favourite. It's one folder containing all that's needed for a decent length investigation into ESP. One folder carrying a set of ESP cards, the BIP book, instructions and test sheets for carrying out the ESP card tests stored in a force wallet. Two of JB Rhine's books: ESP and reach of the mind. A Psi card and a blindfold. If you're doing walk around an ESP deck, PSI card, and BIP would all fit together nicely. The combination of props and theme of the routine makes the items logical as an investigation into the mind.

From the sounds of it cold reading isn't the best starting point. If your not going to do traditional reading methods you will still need a routine to attach it too. Switchcraft as has been suggested would be my recommendation. Even if all you use is the first 20 pages on how to switch, ignoring the other 500 pages it will still be worth the money.

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Postby Lord Freddie » Apr 28th, '11, 09:10

Age them and put them all together in an old looking box, then think of a story as to where the box came from and how you came to be into posession of it.
If you're a good enough performer, no one will bat an eyelid.

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Postby magicofthemind » Apr 28th, '11, 11:16

Jobasha wrote:A Psi card and a blindfold. If you're doing walk around an ESP deck, PSI card, and BIP would all fit together nicely.


Does the Psi Card work for you? Mine went straight to the back of the cupboard (next to Sanctum) and stayed there. I did toy with the idea of making a UK friendly version but gave up.

I agree about the BIP book, which is excellent, and Switchcraft which I was about to mention too. I always carry Kolossal Killer, which also gets great reactions - a 50% version in a Stealth Assassin wallet. Also check out Paul Carnazzo's cards - I carry Test Conditions.

Barry

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Postby Jobasha » Apr 28th, '11, 11:28

I've used psi card as part of a series of effects and it has been fine. Placed in the middle of say ESP cards and BIP afterwards it's alright as your not inviting inspection. The method is fairly obvious and I can see why people dislike it. It also doesn't really achieve much more than could be done with a billet or swami routine. I've kept it in there though as an extra if I get asked for something later. As a stand alone effect it wouldn't be my choice of effect. Paul Carnazzo's cards would be better options.

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