Hall of Shame forum?

Ideas for improvement? Please let us know here! Not everything is possible but we'll consider all suggestions.

Moderators: Lady of Mystery, nickj, Mandrake, bananafish, support, Rob

Dude That's Cool Magic UK's Online Magic Tricks and Jokes Shop offers kids and beginner magic tricks and jokes. Best prices around! Visit Magicbox for all the latest and best effects! A web site set up to sell my book, THE STRIPPER DECK, and future magical/mentalism titles. Web Design for Magicians

Hall of Shame forum?

Postby JammyT » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:27 pm



Somewhere we can express our woe at paying for something you have been deeply disappointed with.

Bad products, rip offs, poor customer service

As a beginner I would have loved if something like this was available

I just hate the thought of beginners and un initiated ams paying over the odds for rubbish

There are plenty of tricks / gimmicks / entire online stores I could put on such a forum right now

User avatar
JammyT
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: Cornwall, UK (26 : SH)

Re: Hall of Shame forum?

Postby Rob » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:40 pm

I'd strongly feel that this idea is not at all in keeping with the spirit of this Forum; I love this place because of the fun, passion and positivity of the members here, so a subforum, concentrarting only on gripes, whinges and (possible) bad-mouthing wouldn't go down at all well with me, I'm afraid.

So, no thank you :(

User avatar
Rob
Moderator
 
Posts: 2535
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 12:30 pm
Location: Hull, United Kingdom (42 - SH)

Re: Hall of Shame forum?

Postby JammyT » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:45 pm

magicrob wrote:I'd strongly feel that this idea is not at all in keeping with the spirit of this Forum; I love this place because of the fun, passion and positivity of the members here, so a subforum, concentrarting only on gripes, whinges and (possible) bad-mouthing wouldn't go down at all well with me, I'm afraid.

So, no thank you :(


Rob

I appreciate where you are coming from and also that it would be difficult to stop such a forum becomming a 'gripes, whinges and (possible) bad-mouthing'

That wasn't really my reason for wanting one

more of a heads up forum really

I just hate seeing people getting ripped off and misleading trick descriptions wind me up also

User avatar
JammyT
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: Cornwall, UK (26 : SH)

Re: Hall of Shame forum?

Postby BigShot » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:52 pm

I'm not saying there shouldn't be one, but I'm not sure we need one.

Unjustified dichotomy alert:
It strikes me that there are two kinds of beginners. (I told you.)
1> They follow the advice, they buy one or two of the standard first stops (RRTCM, Bobo, Wilson's Complete, Tarbell 1, Card College 1) and start learning. After that they get an idea of what they like doing and buy more good, peer-recommended books that lead them in that direction.
2> They ignore all the advice, go out and buy the current big thing, an entire multi-volume series in one hit and the entire Theory11 catalogue. When they don't do what they want they either transform into a Type 1 or look for the next DVD or book that's going to make them amazingly good.

I don't see how a hall of shame would help either of them. 1 wouldn't be getting that stuff anyway and 2 probably wouldn't listen.
Not forgetting, of course, that a lot of the buyer's shame comes from not being prepared to work hard and instead expecting the mere buying and watching of a DVD or use of a new prop to turn them into something they aren't without a lot of hard work.

I'd be concerned such a forum would become flooded with tales of woe and disappointment from those who weren't prepared to make a new book or DVD work for them, while those who are actually getting something from the same book or DVD are too busy practicing and working with it.



While I've been typing this I see some other comments have gone up. With regards to misleading descriptions (really not a good thing) I'd have thought a standard review in the reviews section would do that job well. If someone would read a Hall of Shame to see if a product isn't what it's cracked up to be before buying it, surely they'd read the review forum too?

BigShot
Senior Member
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:27 pm
Location: Manchester UK (29:EN)

Re: Hall of Shame forum?

Postby JammyT » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:02 pm

BigShot wrote:I'm not saying there shouldn't be one, but I'm not sure we need one.

Unjustified dichotomy alert:
It strikes me that there are two kinds of beginners. (I told you.)
1> They follow the advice, they buy one or two of the standard first stops (RRTCM, Bobo, Wilson's Complete, Tarbell 1, Card College 1) and start learning. After that they get an idea of what they like doing and buy more good, peer-recommended books that lead them in that direction.
2> They ignore all the advice, go out and buy the current big thing, an entire multi-volume series in one hit and the entire Theory11 catalogue. When they don't do what they want they either transform into a Type 1 or look for the next DVD or book that's going to make them amazingly good.

I don't see how a hall of shame would help either of them. 1 wouldn't be getting that stuff anyway and 2 probably wouldn't listen.
Not forgetting, of course, that a lot of the buyer's shame comes from not being prepared to work hard and instead expecting the mere buying and watching of a DVD or use of a new prop to turn them into something they aren't without a lot of hard work.

I'd be concerned such a forum would become flooded with tales of woe and disappointment from those who weren't prepared to make a new book or DVD work for them, while those who are actually getting something from the same book or DVD are too busy practicing and working with it.



While I've been typing this I see some other comments have gone up. With regards to misleading descriptions (really not a good thing) I'd have thought a standard review in the reviews section would do that job well. If someone would read a Hall of Shame to see if a product isn't what it's cracked up to be before buying it, surely they'd read the review forum too?


Usually I would get all defensive of the fact that you are disagreeing with me but to be honest I think you are right

such a forum would probably be filled with posts such as

I bought this and it's cr*p!

don't buy it

with little or no justification at all and probably from a beginner that just hasn't done his homework

my heart was in the right place because as I said I hate to see beginners being ripped off but in fairness they usually don't do themselves any favours

User avatar
JammyT
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: Cornwall, UK (26 : SH)

Re: Hall of Shame forum?

Postby JammyT » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:06 pm

Also I have noticed (especially on TM)

a lot of you veterans are good in the sense that you always seem to advise beginners to pick up the holy trinity (Royal Road, Bobo and Mark Wilson Course) which won't break the bank before or rather than spending all their pocket money on expensive hard to use gimmicks

User avatar
JammyT
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: Cornwall, UK (26 : SH)

Re: Hall of Shame forum?

Postby BigShot » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:00 pm

JammyT - I think you probably didn't get defensive as at the core of my post was agreement with you.
I don't want to see beginners being ripped off by companies selling single effect DVDs at the same price as (or more than) a book that you could build a successful career upon. It's just that I'm not so sure a hall of shame would fix that.

I completely agree about the way advice on TM goes. The trinity seems to have become a knee-jerk reaction to newbie requests for a direction... there's the few additional standards too which is good (RRTCM DVD, Tarbell and so on) but still.

BigShot
Senior Member
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:27 pm
Location: Manchester UK (29:EN)

Re: Hall of Shame forum?

Postby JammyT » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:39 pm

I hope people don't get the wrong idea of me from this

As I said before my heart was in the right place but I realise that this would do more damage then good

There are a lot of brilliant products out there and some online shops make sure they try and filter out all the rubbish so their customers don't get ripped off

Fooler Doolers springs to mind, I have never been disappointed at anything I have bought from them and having personal contact with Daryl makes it even better

sadly there are plenty of stores that sell poorly crafted gimmicks / props

trying to find good quality UK coin gaffs is almost impossible

found too many sites that claim to sell the best available only to find that they are not even fit for purpose

User avatar
JammyT
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: Cornwall, UK (26 : SH)

Re: Hall of Shame forum?

Postby BigShot » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:55 pm

Now that's an idea.
Is there an article/thread/other that helps beginners know the difference between a good retailer and a bad one? Between a good effect and a bad one?

I know there's a getting started in magic type thread, but I don't remember it touching on topics like that.

I'm in no position to be able to help with something like that, but it could well be a worthwhile project for the community-minded members of the forum who are far enough down the road to be able to see what a beginner can't.

BigShot
Senior Member
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:27 pm
Location: Manchester UK (29:EN)

Re: Hall of Shame forum?

Postby Mandrake » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:41 pm

Generally speaking, the advertisers who support TM and all worthy of our custom as they've been around quite some time and have a record of good customer service. The Reviews section is always open to posts where a particular effect doesn't cut the mustard as long as it's factual and not just a 'this is c*** (not the best)' type of post. Bear in mind that sometimes a particular effect may not suit you but may totally suit someone else so as much information as possible, and thoughts about how the item could be improved, without exposure of course, would make it an even more helpful review.

User avatar
Mandrake
.
 
Posts: 26877
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: UK (69:AH)

Re: Hall of Shame forum?

Postby JammyT » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:19 am

Been reading through some of the archived reviews and found some great stuff, really helpful

suppose it's mainly down to the beginner whether they want to do a bit of homework or not before splashing the cash and all we can really do is to continue offering sound advice on being responsible with your money so you don't end up disappointed

User avatar
JammyT
Preferred Member
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:09 pm
Location: Cornwall, UK (26 : SH)


Return to Forum requests

ink cartridges Best prices around! Manufacturer of modern & unique magic apparatus! MagicWorld Magic Shop for Magic Tricks Aeternum Servare Secreta Sorcery Shop - Home of the ITR Playing Cards for Magicians World-Of-Magic, Suppliers of quality Magic Worldwide

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron