talkmagic.co.uk

Hey folks,

I just got a camcorder for my birthday, really so I could make some magic vids for my relatives over seas.

Has anyone else tried this much? It's actually a lot harder than you'd think! Tho I may be trying to be too perfectionst haha, but hey you can't be too perfectionist in this respect can you. Weirdly it's actually much easier going out and performing live to real people. I guess that's why most video's seem to come off much better when they're filmed out and about as opposed to at home on your desk. I think you need to perform twice as hard when it's just you and a camera...and it probably helps when you have a camera man/woman as opposed to a static tripod.

Has anyone got any tips?

Cheers

lighting is very important and keep you backgrounds as neutral as possible, remember the camera will see all so unless you have a camera person looking were they are supposed to check your angles, apart from that have fun with it.
if you take it too seriously you'll come across as flat... oh and lastly don't look at the camera lens work to a focal point behind the camera it will give you a more natural look.
some magicians have had good luck using head cams to mix in a magicians view when filming close up situations, just a thought.

if your camera has the facility to use an external mike it will improve you video immensely .

Awesome, thanks dude That focal point is a good tip. I don't have an external mic option but the sound is pretty good.

And yes I tried a few things thinking they were cool but on review I flashed a few things quite badly haha, and I'm not talking a big hole in my pants. It's amazing what you see in HD on a big screen when all you've to look at is a 3" monitor on filming and if you've a camera operator they'd have to be reasonably clued up. I stick to my earlier statement it's harder than one would think.

I did try a few serious introductions too haha and yes they suck badly, just as you say, way too flat! Good fun learning tho

It seems ages since I last made a posting here. No special reason, just one of those things. However the question about video interested me, as video is my other ‘hat’. Many videos I create are nothing to do with magic but a great deal are. I make magic videos of other magicians for general viewing and for basic teaching and I also make videos of myself presenting magic and for teaching, so I do have some experience.

Your initial posting quite rightly pointed out that it’s not as easy as it appears. In some ways it’s like saying ‘I've been given a pack of cards, how do I become a magician?’. My first question is ‘What kind of magic do you perform?’ I am going to assume that your main interest is Close-up and most likely cards.

Therefore the simplest way is to make your videos is indoors with the camera on a tripod. Presenting magic routines with no audience is normally very ‘flat’ so my suggestion is to get a couple of friends to be your audience for the occasion. These can be magical friends or just ordinary laymen friends. Your performance will have that live feel to it and be so much better for it. If you can connect a small portable TV or Laptop to your camera you will find it easier to set up and compose the picture with a much bigger screen, although it’s not a good idea to look at this monitor whilst performing. Clearly you will practice your routines to perfection before asking your helpers to attend.

Having suggested filming indoors the question of lighting comes up. Modern cameras can record in quite low levels of lighting but the brighter your room the better. If you set your camera in front of the main window and you and your audience/props facing the window this should give you a nice simple front lighting. I do a lot of my work this way although I do have ‘studio’ lighting if really needed. I think all modern video cameras have a fully automatic setting, which should cope quite well with this lighting, colour and exposure. If you have the facility for manual focus I suggest using this if possible. Pre focus on the props on the table and all should be acceptable.

I don’t worry too much about the background even if it is your general lounge setting, as it will give your video a nice homely feeling. Try to avoid any bright windows behind you as this might (will) cause exposure problems.

It was a good suggestion to recommend an external mic. As mentioned, this can only be used if your camera has an input for a mic. Most domestic camcorders do not have this facility. Not to worry, your camera used indoors in this way should give you adequate sound quality.

Depending on your camera, it might be supplied with a remote control so that you can start/stop recording from your working position. Some cameras can even use a smart phone as a remote control. You will have to discover this for yourself.

The next important thing is editing your masterpiece. Most PCs or macs do have an already installed video editing programme that will be quite adequate for your simple needs. Windows Movie Maker on PCs and imovie on the others. This will take a bit of learning even for the basics but a nice title etc. can really give your production a pro touch.

Always be pleased to talk further on the subject if you want me to.

Mark.

Thanks Mark, that's awesome I feel a bit more re-inspired now.

I have a Canon Legria R506, no external mic but the mic on it is pretty hot so it seems. I'm very much liking the big monitor tip, it's really hard using the small screen to frame things up. I think I can wire it into a big screen so I'll have a go.

I'm actually off to a little festival next weekend so I was hoping to get some proper live stuff there although I'll only have a few mates to film for me who are 'not magic' shall we say, but I'll see how it goes.

As I think I mentioned, the purpose of the vids is just for sending to far off family and friends really. I'm certainly not advertising myself in magical terms just now

Yes the kind of magic I do is close up, and haha it is mainly cards but I do Extreme Burn as my new top trick which generally slays everyone, and a few coin tricks too... 'Metal Sheep', '4 Coins through the table'. So indeed with most of them they don't really come off so well when you don't have at least one extra hand to pick a card, or shuffle the cards for you when you want the action to take place in someone elses hands.

Feel free to add anything you like! The idea of making decent videos in general fascinates me, magical or otherwise and although I've owned in the passed a few digital cameras that took good video this is the first ever camcorder and indeed full HD that I've ever owned. Believe me the full HD aspect makes it more tricky when considering angles. I did a screen test just on a tripod using the small screen as monitor and tried extreme burn ... fine on small screen preview, epic fail on big screen HD haha...oops.

I could say it was the angle, but were I just doing it to a regular live few people I think the angle would have been fine. I've only ever been busted once with EB when my sister was sitting side on to me. The camera sees all where as peoples eyes seem to miss lots more at the exact same position and angle! Does that make sense? Or am I making excuses for my impatience again?

Anyway thanks again for the informative reply and do carry on if you want to ...are you by any chance mint man you man yeah yeah, captain fantastic? Or am I thinking of another Mark Wynn

Thanks for your reply Mr Cat. One of your problems is coming from Scotland . . (I'm really joking of course. I've done many a summer season there when I was much younger!) You say: "are you by any chance mint man you man yeah yeah, captain fantastic? Or am I thinking of another Mark Wynn" This must be another man. It's my non-de plume anyway.

Back to video. Getting some mates to do the camera work for you is fine so long as you have someone sensible. Get them to record from the front - as in a spectator’s point of view. This should, to some extent, solve some of the angles problems. Of course, do get some routines recorded from other positions so that when you study the results at home you will get a true picture of what you are doing.

It’s generally well known that misdirection used by magicians does not work well in ‘fooling’ the camera. However, having an audience watching your routines should certainly help especially if the spectators are shown in shot being entertained and the video is not just ‘burning’ close-ups of your hands. Advise cameraman to hold camera really steady and not wave it about. Otherwise results can be very distracting for viewers. Recording some live performances like this will certainly teach you a lot about yourself and performance when you view these results. Invaluable I would say.

One of the problems with the latest camcorders is that they don’t have a standard viewfinder only the LCD screen. I see your model has a nice 3 inch screen but using out of doors, particularly in bright conditions, it’s quite difficult to see the image on the screen and thus frame the image well. Back to recording sound. In situations with quite a lots of ambient noise as might be at a festival, then first class recording sound of your patter might not be the best. You will just have to try and see.

You say “As I think I mentioned, the purpose of the vids is just for sending to far off family and friends really. I'm certainly not advertising myself in magical terms just now” You may not see it as I do, but in some ways what you send to distant friends is almost like a promo video. You want them to see you at your best. I’ll leave it there and you may care to report back here on what you manage at this festival.

Best of luck. Mark.

Thanks dude, well seeing as you're into your making of vids I just did a quick youtube search and someone of your nametag makes a lot of vids on there, mainly music, quite entertaining

Anyhow I will be sure to report back yes.

Well, I made a most excellent (even if I say so myself) documentary of the festival. I went round and truly melted some peoples minds with the old Extreme Burn and Metal Sheep. That was all I needed. Unfortunately someone filmed me doing EB and it was all good until he decided to go for a side on close up and I didn't move round to compensate so it was sadly un-usable. Someone also filmed metal sheep, totally angle proof, but forgot to press record apparently! Typical eh. Next to audience control I need to learn laymen camera man control too haha There's always something eh... a lot of fun tho

Well done that chap!!

Thanks Man, I think my other calling in life is documentary maker now, what fun. Shame about the magic but its time will come