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leading on from what my mate does, i think he asks them if they are a summer baby, or a winter baby.
if they give a definate answer, you have no more than 3 signs to consider.
if they dither, ask if they are a spring baby, or fall.

once again... you have whittled it down to one of 3.

then guess.

if you go for the middle one of the 3, your going to be spot on,1 in 3 times.
and when your wrong.. your only one out.( which isnt bad! )

Contrabass101

The sign language thing looks interesting, and the e-book is not too expensive... yet I need to know, if the method will work in other languages as well. Where I live, star-signs are usually not named by their latin name.

That is quite the issue when it comes to using progressive anagrams in that most are directed towards English. However, if you were to be serious in using this kind of system I'd be willing to check with a few folks I know about possible translations.

Another thing you could purchase that would assist in this matter, is a software program called PANAGRAM available through the Underground Collective on line. This would allow you to insert the words that work with your language situation and create your own Progressive Anagram trees on a variety of topics. I've used it for menu items at some of the facilities I've worked and wine lists, so the sky is the limit and the price reasonable.

You might be able to find other Progressive Anagram systems on line that are free for the use but you'll have to do a search for them, I'm not certain the one's I found long ago are still active.

PM me with the languages you're concerned about and I'll see if Doug has any material that has already been adjusted or if I can get translations for you.

Here is a short bilo on Zodiac Effects.
In my opinion the best way is to create your own ways and effects.
I'm sure there are endless ways to create a zodiac divination that will be much more convincing than any published system.
I know it from personal experience as I created dozens of ways of doing just that with no pre-show, no instant stooges, nothing is written down etc.


Bob Farmer's fate accompli (1986)

Bob Farmer invented the zodiac effect and not Ray Grismer.
Farmer told Max Maven about it who told T.A.Waters.
T.A.Waters start performing it, and Grismer saw one of those performances and months later brought out, "What's My Sign?" with no credit to Bob Farmer.

Ray Grismer's what's your sign (year unknown)

T.A.Waters's Signse (1986) published in MM&M.

Dave Arch in Syzygy (Volume 2, Issue 28) page 130-131

Jas Jakutsch in Completely Mental vol 1 (1999)

Banachek in Psychophysiological Thought Reading (1996,2002)

Doug Dyment's Sign Language (2002)

Alain Nu's signagram in XXX Mentalism (2003)

Phntomas astrolingua (2003)

Igor Ledochowski (2004)

Patrick Schlagel's mnemosign (2006)

Zodiac Revolution in Richard Osterlind No Camera Tricks (2007)

Alain Nu's Astrologic (2007) a collection of all the systems Alain published so far and some that he didn't and ways of combining them.



Daniel Love's Dream Signs (2004)

Christian Chelman's Zodiac (first published in 1982)


Alain Nu's Iconographic Fishing Exercice: The Zodiac in The Looking Glass summer 1996.
Also published as Zodiattack in Mystery School Book (2003)
Can also be found in Secrets and Realities.

Alain Nu's Zodiesque was published in issue 57 of Syzygy by Lee Earle
Syzygy #57 (Volume 4, Issue 3), Syzygy: The First Five Volumes on page 274 where you guess an individual's sign without using a PA

Alain Nu's Zodiesque in Nu Discoveries (1998)
Can also be found in Alain Nu's Secrets and Realities (2007)

Ted Karmilovich has his own version of that in his The No-Prop Nightclub Act (2001)

Luke Jermay has a version of Karmilovich's in his Three Cheers ebook


The Mental Mysteries of Hector Chadwick: Astrological aside


Yaniv Deautsch
www.yanivd.co.il

Doug Dyment's Sign Language is a very good, very thorough and well-thought out progressive anagram method. It disguises the fishing very well.
Daniel Love's Dream Signs is a more subtle method, and might not work for everyone. But if it does work it will blow the spectators away.
I use my own progressive anagram, because it is what I started out with. But with any presentational skills the fishing does not look like fishing.
At the moment I am experimenting with telling three peoples star signs at the same time. This method removes any suspicion of fishing, is not that difficult, and gives me good scope for presentation. It will soon be one of the openers of my show.
Its well worth learning a good method of telling star signs. it is very personal to the person you are doing it for, and gets a great reaction.

In hanging out at a local pub every now and then, I will do a Star Sign "routine" for lack of a better term, in which I exploit several different methods so as to reveal said details for 6 or more guests. I stress however, it's not all "hands clean" per ce... I even use an SUC case in one instance and that's something I rarely do (using gaffed wallets).

Once people have a working understanding of things though, it becomes easy to develop their own way of doing such things... or it should.

Astrology works, tho our star signs tend to change every 100 years. At least that's what Bill Nye said, and I tend to believe most of what that man says.

I should try to find a method where you not only guess the zodiac sign of an unknow person, but also his (her) birthdate...
(I never liked the progessive anagram concept for this), so the method will be visually entertaining, you won't make more than one "mistake"(+ you'll make affirmations and NOT questions), and the effect can be repeated immediately. That would be the best mental effect ever.
I'll think about it...

Randy wrote:Astrology works, tho our star signs tend to change every 100 years. At least that's what Bill Nye said, and I tend to believe most of what that man says.

And you are fully aware that Bill was a High School Math Teacher and has absolutely no scientific background, right?

He just reads a script and causes real scientists to roll their eyes

I always thought he was a former NASA rocket scientist. Sense that what's his biography says..

Tho if that isn't the case, then I am deeply saddened, He was a major part of my childhood.

Astrology works as well as voodoo, acupuncture, and cold fusion. Learn a Progressive Anagram method and forget the mumbo-jumbo. Tony.

Randy wrote:I always thought he was a former NASA rocket scientist. Sense that what's his biography says..

Tho if that isn't the case, then I am deeply saddened, He was a major part of my childhood.

I've not heard that one but I do have a couple of friends that really are Scientists (a Chemical Engineer and a very real NASA Rocket Engineer... both of whom are magicians) both of whom say that Bill was a school teacher that lucked into the show because of his crazy way of effectively teaching and inspiring the kids in his classroom.

I also like the idea of doing it this way...



1. Billet Switch
2. Do an effect using the secret information that he or she wrote.
3. Go into another effect.
4. Chat a little.
5. Talk about star signs.
6. Make him (or her) to think at his (or her) star sign.
7. Reveal it letter by letter.

Sorry lovekey but I think you've moved in a direction other than where this discussion was moving in... the original issue was being able to name a Star/Sun Sign without any billet type work and as little interaction with the mark as possible. Anyone can accomplish this with the use of billets, imp pads, etc. I've even done it by lifting a wallet or two so as to get the birth date information, but what most seem interested in doing is revealing this information without any special actions of said nature... not even Muscle Reading unless it's non-contact.

Craig Browning wrote:Sorry lovekey but I think you've moved in a direction other than where this discussion was moving in... the original issue was being able to name a Star/Sun Sign without any billet type work and as little interaction with the mark as possible. Anyone can accomplish this with the use of billets, imp pads, etc. I've even done it by lifting a wallet or two so as to get the birth date information, but what most seem interested in doing is revealing this information without any special actions of said nature... not even Muscle Reading unless it's non-contact.

Right...Ok Then...Sorry for going in another direction Go on..

does anyone have 'A Beginner's Guide to Progressive Anagrams' available to share here without me having to register on the magic cafe and pm the guy?