talkmagic.co.uk

[GoldFish]

As direct as a bullet from a gun, Andy Nyman's Killer Elite is a powerful piece of close-up mentalism that is perfect for the modern magician!

Four postcards are shown each baring the picture of some of the most notorious screen killers ever.


You set the scene by telling a story: four killers on a night out at a casino and an argument breaks out. Shots are heard three men are down, only one left standing - when your spectator make his choice he is totally correct!


Warning - only perform this effect if you wish to appear very cool

Review:

This effect does exactly what it says on the tin. It’s direct, powerful and utilizes a very simple principle.

Personally, it’s an important part of my repertoire because of its three key elements:
1) Simplicity – Both in handling and presentation.
2) Directness – It provides the spectators with something that they can relate quite easily to.
3) Power – If the scene is set properly and everything comes together this effect can be the most powerful thing you perform in an evening/show/whatever.

This effect has my whole hearted approval.

Rating: 10/10

Price: £12.00 from http://www.alakazam.co.uk

[Cliff]

Goldfish,

I have just ordered this (along with the hidden). Can this be modified to work with photos instead of the postcards?

Thanks

Cliff

[roman59]

Cliff

It could be modified to work with photos if you want.

However the postcards are scaled down versions of the film posters that feature the characters used in the routine.

Hope this helps

Cheers
Mark

[Cliff]

excellent news - thanks

[Happy Toad]

I'm not quite as positive about this as Goldfish, although I do agree it's a nice routine.

I personally think it needs a few minor adaptations to improve it.

It can't be examined and it can't be done twice on the same group of people so I'd never give it a 10 out of 10. Maybe an 8.

[GoldFish]

Toad, are those the only alterations that you would make? Personally, the fact that it is unexaminable has nevver affected my performance of it. People are so blown away by the fact that they chose the right one that they don't seem to think about having a look at it. Actually, now that I think of it, if you handle it all right then it is always examinable. Each time it is possible to work something that is examinable into the routine.

The second problem that you highlighted about not doing it twice for the same group did at first hold me back but then I realise that this effect is to good to blow off on that account and now I just save it until a big group are watching so that I don't have to risk doing it twice for the same people without realising, if you see what I mean.

I would still give it 10/10, because those problems that hold you back seem to me to be more about personal performance as opposed to the trick itself.

[Happy Toad]

I didn't mention the changes I'd make just some difficulties with the trick that would reduce the score for me.

Any trick with which if you perform again to the same person would risk exposure, to my mind has an inherrent weakness and would therefore not get a 10 out of 10.

Also I can't see how you can possibly finnish clean, definitely not if you follow their instructions.

Can't say much on alterations but one would be to change the envelope so not a V shape but straight across. I wouldn't fold the thingie. and I would do a scan and shrink it. Can't say more than that.

You appear to think I have problems performing this, actually I don't have it, but I've seen it and I do perform a very similar version with cards, I have no problems with it, it is what it is, I just wouldn't give it 10 out of 10.

[roman59]

The similar one that you perform with cards would it be the routine featured on The Very Best Of Jay Sankey?
If it is this can't be repeated either.

[MagicIain]

Repeating a trick?

Unheard of here guys.

Simply don't do it.

[roman59]

Zack

I was not suggesting that the trick should be repeated but commenting on one of the previous posts stating that Killer Elite could not be repeated to the same audience.

Cheers

Mark

[nickj]

Repeating tricks is a complex issue, but the bottom line is that if you can't without exposing the method then don't. Some effects are repeatable since they will never be worked out, and some appear different from the point of view of a sideling spectator and a participating one, making them easier to repeat.

[Happy Toad]

In some situations where you are moving around groups of people doing your stuff, someone that has already seen you do a trick may move and catch it again. Or If your table hopping and a month later you have someone that saw you a month ago and you don't reconise them, you could still be busted. In fact just two people that saw your trick and talk to each other even has some risk of exposure.

It is not like for example Twisted Sister, or a card to wallet routine which could be done again without problem and as I say it can't be examined either before or after which again loses marks for me.

I'll give another reason it wouldn't get a 10 from me. You give the spec 4 choices and he chooses correctly. THe spec had a 25% chance even without magic, you can't repeat it, to prove it happens every time so you have simply performed something that would have happened 25% of the time by chance. Now for me that will never get a 10.

Still it is a good trick.

[Edited by Mods]

[GoldFish]

Just as a little annecdote to illustrate a point I have performed this trick to the same person twice. It was one of those situations when you show somebody a trick and then a little while later when your doin your thing they say, "Can you do the one where...". I did and I know for a fact that I risked exposure with this effect (those of you who are familiar with it can probably work out why) and yet he was still just as blown away as the people who had never seen it before. In my opinion this effect is all in the presentation; if you get it right it is a miracle (and it's not that hard to get it right!)

[Happy Toad]

I would suggest repeating this trick is a big mistake. Sure you may get lucky and get away with it, but I would think it unlikely and the spec would need to be pretty dim not to work it out. Did your spec pick the same killer?

Goldfish, would you agree that if this trick were repeatable as often as you chose even with the spec changing killer, it would be a better trick?

Would you also agree that if instead of just 4 possibilities if there were 200 ( much as Derren did with objects the other night ) and the spec still picked the correct one from 200, that it would be a better trick?

If you agree that the above versions would be better what mark out of 10 would you give them?

Now perhaps you can understand my reluctance to give it a 10. Yup nice trick, yup the presentation makes it and the patter is good. Could it be any better? Yes both the above would make it more powerful, though would almost certainly require a more difficult method.

[GoldFish]

Yes, i agree that the illusion Derren Brown pulled off using the 200 objects was a better illusion (and consequently completly different to the method involved in Killer Elite). However, you have to bear the context in mind. Killer Elite is an intamite piece of close up magic, designed to be performed to a very small audience . Derren Brown's TV effects are designed for an audience of thousands, possibly millions. Yes, the 200-object trick would be very impressive if only two or three people saw it but it wouldn't be fulfilling its potential and the same would be the same if Killer elite were performed on TV; it would be very impressive but the intamcy of it would be taken away and thus the effect would be ruined.

As far as repeating the effect goes, I was showing this effect to a bunch of students at one of the country's top state schools. These guys are meant to be in the top 20% of this country's intellect (by the way I'm not having a go, I'm just illustrating a point) and believe me they are pretty sharp guys and definatly not "dim". To answer your questions (even if we are skating pretty close to exposure) no he didn't choose the same killer. I don't think this means that he's dim for not realising but that it was the effect that bowled him over, not how we got there.

So far I havnt seen an argument that has made me reconsider my original rating of this effect.