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Struggling with an effect? Any tips (without giving too much away!) you'd like to share?

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Postby Renato » Nov 4th, '07, 10:28



Jackson Avocado wrote:
Cardza wrote::shock: DVDs would be a far better way of learning than Youtube IMO.

If you came across any tutorials of marketed effects I seriously suggest you report them to the creators - they're cracking down on Youtube exposure more and more now.


I disagree with this to an extent. I began learning magic off of YouTube, and it's a great resource for beginners like me who like to get a feel for what they're getting into before investing in DVDs. A couple widely practiced card tricks, namely Red Hot Mama and Jumping Gemini, have some GREAT tutorials online. The 'copyrighted' tricks, I agree, shouldn't be exposed, but age old card tricks- come on, you can't get mad at that.


Youtube isn't a great resource. Nine times out of ten the emphasis is on the tricks themselves and the presentations are absolutely atrocious; the handlings are sloppy and awkward and, to put it plainly, the idea that the people in these tutorials are in a position to teach others is laughable. The only thing you'll learn from them is how to do the thing awkwardly and you sure as heck won't learn about the finer points of presentation.

"it's a great resource for beginners like me who like to get a feel for what they're getting in to"

Yet these are all things that a simple book like The Royal Road To Card Magic will give you an excellent start with.

Jumping Gemini isn't age-old. You must have heard of Darwin Ortiz, a man who is still very much active in the magic scene? It's his. It's one of them 'copyrighted' (i.e. published) tricks. A lot of people have put up tutorials of it, sure, but just because it is now one of those 'widely practised' effects that doesn't make it right to learn it off Youtube.

Very generic effects - key card pieces and such (to an extent of course) I don't think there's a problem ethically, but I do maintain that there is a problem because of the 'performers' they can spawn.

End of the day: if you want to get off to a good start in magic, avoid Youtube because a lot of what's on there ain't good at all.

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Postby moodini » Nov 4th, '07, 18:04

I have to step in....I do use youtube often but for magic performances not tutorial purposes. I like seeing what others are doing with specific effects to "make it their own" and I find it is great for my creative juices. Having said that I am not condoning the tutorial versions - or new, old, copyrighted, or otherwise - in any way....I like watching old clips of shows and routines that i recall watching on television as a kid. I also enjoy watching others handle an effect that I own - as it can help from a performance perspective to see it done in its entirety - and that can help me trouble shoot what I see as weeknesses in the packaged handling, ways that it could be changed to fit in with my style, etc....you want a great example of how watching others work helps? Watch all the numerous "sam the bellhop routines" and take not of the fact that they are all simply cloning Bill Malone in not only words but mannerisms....We all know how annoying that is to see but watching it done over and over again the same way is a great reminder of why you should do it "Your way" all the time.

I like to see how others have linked from one effect to another, how they have taken an acr and done it with other props (Hockey cards or business cards for example) cup and balls done with bottle caps and a ball of tissue paper....all things that I have seen on youtube.

I DO promote it from a research on presentation/creativity/handling ideas perspective but I DO NOT promote it from a "learn for free" perspective...I wish I could say I beleived that the youtube issue was black or white but it is not....unless you are talking about each and every video posted on an individual basis.

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Postby Jackson Avocado » Nov 4th, '07, 19:10

Cardza wrote:Youtube isn't a great resource. Nine times out of ten the emphasis is on the tricks themselves and the presentations are absolutely atrocious; the handlings are sloppy and awkward and, to put it plainly, the idea that the people in these tutorials are in a position to teach others is laughable. The only thing you'll learn from them is how to do the thing awkwardly and you sure as heck won't learn about the finer points of presentation.


No, I agree that these tutorials teach you dill about presentation, but I still maintain it's a great place to begin. When you want to get into magic, I don't think it's very fair to the performer to go out and buy books before they know what exactly they're getting into. Perfecting the tricks is a different issue. Granted, it's not the fairest deal for the publishers, either.

Cardza wrote:Jumping Gemini isn't age-old. You must have heard of Darwin Ortiz, a man who is still very much active in the magic scene? It's his. It's one of them 'copyrighted' (I.e. published) tricks. A lot of people have put up tutorials of it, sure, but just because it is now one of those 'widely practised' effects that doesn't make it right to learn it off Youtube.


Alright, I had no idea that the trick belonged to him. I was under the impression that it was just a clever congolmeration of double lifts (well, it is) that's been around forever. Same with Red Hot Mama; did a little research just now.

Cardza wrote:Very generic effects - key card pieces and such (to an extent of course) I don't think there's a problem ethically, but I do maintain that there is a problem because of the 'performers' they can spawn.


I think over everything else, this is what has helped me the most with card tricks. I'm still new to magic, but even now, when I look at some of those DL tutorials, I cringe. They ARE horrible. But they're a place to start, and after watching those tutorials, I've developed a better way on my own that I'm relatively proud of. Besides, I'm going to the magic shop in a couple hours, to see what they think. And like I said, I stuck around, and now own a few DVDs as well. But YouTube was where I started.

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Postby Renato » Nov 4th, '07, 19:26

Fair enough Jackson! I get what you're saying and it's great that you've moved beyond the "youtube approach"... it's just a shame that others don't, and they're the ones you tend to hear more about.

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Postby Jackson Avocado » Nov 4th, '07, 20:25

Yeah, and I'm glad I did. On the other hand, I know one person at school who's completely limited to YouTube, and another who illegally downloaded DVDs off torrents before they were removed. Having some trouble deciding which is worse for magic.

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Postby Lenoir » Dec 31st, '07, 23:39

I am not new to magic, but by no means an experianced magician. Without sounding like an egoist, i am rather proud of the way i started.
First of all got myself to backs on nice bikes and the royal road to card magic. Admittedly Paul Zenons Street Magic too but that doesnt matter!

Slowly progressed through the book and the began moving on. I chose spongeballs over coins for my own preference and confidence and now ive moved on to my chop cup and rope and rings.

Of course i still perform regular card tricks, "the chicargo opener" being my personal favourite, but sometimes card magic just isn't what an audience want.

Muchos lovos.

"I want to do magic...but I don't want to be referred to as a magician." - A layman chatting to me about magic.
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Postby hclchicken » Jan 3rd, '08, 02:42

I have this bad habit of manipulating objects with my hands when I get bored and I've recently looked into coin manipulation, and very very basic tricks. I found this forum while searching for a magic forum, and there's not much out there forumwise for beginners.

I was told that these books:
mark wilsons complete course in magic
now you see it now you don :bill tar

were good books for beginners. I was also recommended this 8 volume series, but I think the 700 pages from those two books will keep me occupied for a while.

Until they arrive are there any good online sources for manipulation and sleight of hand tricks, mainly coin palming and such. Also, whats a good resource to buy books and tricks. I know I can buy tricks here, but you have the no book rule. Do they allow unopened/ shrinkwrapped books for sale, or is there a distributer?

The biggest problem so far, is one of the coin manipulations where you hide the coin between your fingers so you can't see if from one side won't work on me. I have really skinny fingers so 2/4 of the gaps you can see really easily, and one won't even grab because of the space, is there any easy solution to it?

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Postby kolm » Jan 3rd, '08, 09:56

hclchicken wrote:The biggest problem so far, is one of the coin manipulations where you hide the coin between your fingers so you can't see if from one side won't work on me. I have really skinny fingers so 2/4 of the gaps you can see really easily, and one won't even grab because of the space, is there any easy solution to it?


If you're wanting to get into coin manipulation, then I recommend you get Bobo's Modern Coin Magic. It only costs a few quid on Amazon, and it has hundreds of sleights (a few which will help you with what you're trying to achieve)

I know it's not what you want to hear — but waiting a few days for this book is well worth it :)

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Postby hclchicken » Jan 3rd, '08, 21:06

kolm wrote:
hclchicken wrote:The biggest problem so far, is one of the coin manipulations where you hide the coin between your fingers so you can't see if from one side won't work on me. I have really skinny fingers so 2/4 of the gaps you can see really easily, and one won't even grab because of the space, is there any easy solution to it?


If you're wanting to get into coin manipulation, then I recommend you get Bobo's Modern Coin Magic. It only costs a few quid on Amazon, and it has hundreds of sleights (a few which will help you with what you're trying to achieve)

I know it's not what you want to hear — but waiting a few days for this book is well worth it :)


Ran up to the magic corner in raleigh, and picked up TRRCM, and coin magic, so far coin magic is fascinating. A couple of the sleights I thought I knew and they confirmed them, but some of them blew me away, like the click pass or coin flip.

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levitatons

Postby benjiroxbaby » Feb 7th, '08, 14:19

best levitation ive found is Skywalker by the enchantment, you can get it on Magicmagic.co.uk for bout £13 its great with wide angles and and it fairly impromptu as well. i use it quite often.

all of you who want to lean coin magic, i recently brought Jay noblezadas "in the begining there were coins" DVD which is designed for absolute beginners. its good also for people who may have been doing coin magic for a long while, like i have, but you can pick up some good advice on misdirection and such.

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Levitation

Postby Mexicub » Jul 16th, '08, 22:56

If you're looking for begginers levitation then you need a towel and you lift your leg while at the same time lifting the towel in front of you're legs. If you want to do a levitation that you can do surrounded and astound the hell out of people then beginners need not apply.

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Postby tensorworld » Jul 25th, '08, 07:07

I figure this is the best place to post this. I know how to do a lot of tricks that just do themselves. I find this terribly unimpressive even if with a little wit and stage presence everyone else does. I have been trying to pick up sleights and palming and things of that sort. However most of it has been off either YouTube or whatever else I could find online for free. I saw the books recommended at the beginning of this post but it is like 3 years old. I just wanted to make sure that's what you would still recommend. Thanks.

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Postby Mandrake » Jul 25th, '08, 09:41

Those books are all still very relevant and well worth buying. You may find others which appeal and are perhaps more modern (RRTCM is written in a very old fashioned style!) but the basiscs are the same.

Be wary of learning off Youtube as many of those vids show the wrong way of doing things or are just pirated copies of commercial works. There's some good stuff on there but overshadowed by the crud :wink: !

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Postby wchua24 » Aug 7th, '08, 13:29

wow i sure wanna learn more about magic.

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Postby wchua24 » Aug 13th, '08, 00:07

wow really amazing posts, am a newbie here and pretty much interested in this kind of stuff.

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