talkmagic.co.uk

could it be? only time will tell but it has got my attention, that's for sure:

http://www.ellusionist.com/order/Bicycl ... Cards.html

well, surprisingly it's not exceedingly expensive.

for what the hell does that mean ultimate quality standard bicycle deck?i is it standard or is it ultimate?

I've never used thick stock cards, like in the Tiger deck I guess? what's the difference? They still get soft after being used for awhile right?

well, it's only double the price of a normal deck, but if you really think about it, I'd rather have two decks.

i guess we'll have to wait and see what it's like. surely worth the price of a try and see.

re the "thicker stock" decks. i dont have a tiger deck. i do have several Vipers. i find 2 key differences.

(1) the card weight.
the thicker stock means you can "feel" the cards better in your hands. DL's, etc just seem that little bit easier to control/achieve.

(2) the surface texture.
the texture of the faces of each card is a little different. they really "glide" rather than slide.

bottom line:
i had trouble with ribbon spreads, with fans, with Pharoah Shuffles, with dribbling cards, with riffle shuffles...

i bought a couple of Viper Decks. EVERYTHING became easier. i practiced and practiced using the Viper decks motivated by the fact i was actually making "progess"... now i can do all that with a regular deck of Bikes. and from time to time when i pull out my Vipers just for fun...

it's like the Rolls Royce of cards to handle.

dont knock it till you try it.

so, if these new Bikes are basically standard Bikes but Viper Quality... FANTASTIC!!! and if not, small money to find out.

Yeh, I guess you know how expensive cards are in Australia. so even being just 50% more expensive is offputting given that they are basically a consumable item. bicycles and bees are the only card have ever seen before. I've only seen Viper and Tally Ho's online, so I don't really understand the difference. but if I remember correctly Viper and Tally Ho's don't cost that much more do they?

I would have thought the thicker stock would make dribbling and riffle shuffling harder? How do they feel after they've been worn in?

they feel great, the reason it is easier even with the thicker stock (for me anyway) is because i feel like i can "feel every individual card in my hand..." my dribble is 1 card at a time rather than 1 - 3 - 5 - 2 - 3 - 1 etc...

hope that helps explain.

re the cost:
check out this guy for price on eBay. identical product and cheaper than anywhere else i have found. he processes around 400 orders per week so dont expect lightening fast replies but if you want to save $$$ he is very good. also, make a reasonable order and ask him to combine a good shipping deal... he will usually help. if he doesn't have Vipers in his eBay store message him for info, i paid US$4.99 for my Viper decks.

http://stores.ebay.com/MAGIC-FOR-LESS_W ... esstQQtZkm

I guess my prob with bikes is it goes from too hard, to too soft. When new, i drop them cuz they're so hard and smooth they spring out of my hands.

Next time I may try having a deck that is never riffled...

It's not an Ultimate Deck as in m****d cards???
Ultimate, Quality standard bicycle deck?

that was my first thought, but I'm gonna have a look now, I'm intrigued now...

to best of my understanding... design = standard red Bikes (except for box and Ace of spades design). the diff is 100% related to quality which i assume means to say same quality as Vipers and Ghosts which are great... i guess we'll see...

yeah, sorry...

It say ultra quality not ultimate. Am gonna have to get some though

B0bbY_CaT wrote:to best of my understanding... design = standard red Bikes (except for box and Ace of spades design). the diff is 100% related to quality which i assume means to say same quality as Vipers and Ghosts which are great... i guess we'll see...

Actually I believe E said somewhere about tigers vs ghosts. Both are 'better' quality but different. IE there are many grades of quality in between bikes and Vipers.

Now someone with tigers / ghosts may help out here, air cushion exclusive to bikes, air flow exclusive to TH's. Would suggest this deck would have air cushion finish as well. How does the Vipers finish look like? Is it same square pattern?

Fun stuff from the big E marketing machine:

On the Tiger deck page, "yes — you read that right — better quality than Tally-Ho’s"

On the Viper... "PERFECT, exactly like the Black Tiger"

So each deck is equal to or better than every other.

btw, what's with the "Minor earlier issues experienced with Tiger and Viper" noted on every page? For them to say that it musta been a big big issue.

Anyway, given the 'master' price vs these others, I'm guessing lower quality.

OK, i have my Ghosts in one hand and Vipers in the other... lets take a look...

BOTH say UV500-Air Fow finish on the box.

texture is the same.

the Vipers are "slightly heavier" (thicker)... my guess is over an entiure deck of 52 cards, say 2 cards thicker. this could be simply because the Vipers are printed on white stock so you have the thickness of the black ink on the front and back of 52 cards making this diff rather than the stock itself.

that would mean these new Bikes will be more like Ghosts than Vipers. either way, both Ghosts and Vipers are great!

hope that helps.

re the "past issues" they refer to, from what i have read, the cards more or less "stuck together" and didn't spread well. i cant talk about that from personal experience however.

i CAN tell you that current Vipers and Ghosts are excellent.

sorry i doint have Tigers to compare.

NB Thread moved out of Magician Talk as it wasn't about a magician.

B0bbY_CaT wrote:re the "past issues" they refer to, from what i have read, the cards more or less "stuck together" and didn't spread well. i cant talk about that from personal experience however.

i CAN tell you that current Vipers and Ghosts are excellent.

sorry i doint have Tigers to compare.

hmm you make me want to get a deck! hopes to find a shop when visit the states next month.