talkmagic.co.uk

Ask yourselves this:

Do you do tricks, or perform magic?

Magic, without performance, is a series of tricks.

Magic, with performance, is entertainment.

So, if you PERFORM magic, you are entertaining, so the real answer is that you need both, with the magic being the conclusion of the entertainment.

How many people say "pick a card, it's the 7 of clubs"?

No one I hope. You embelish it with a story, or misdirecton or whatever.
You are entertaining.

If you feel magic is first, try 10 tricks out on someone, taking all the elements out, apart from the magic. They will last a couple of minutes in total.

An example.
I do Hippitty Hop Rabbits in a childrens show. First version is a rough normal version.

Explain that you have two magic rabbits, but sometimes they are naughty. Ask the children to call out if they run about and swap places. Turn them round, show they have changed. Repeat. Children call out you are just turning rabbits around. Spend next few minutes turning them every which way, apart from how they want them. Children keep yelling.
In the end, turn them round properly. Rabbits have changed from what they expect. Act surprised/don't notice, until they yell more. Tell them the rabbits are being very naughty today and tricked you (me the magician). etc.

Magic only version.
You show 2 rabbits, turn them round, turn them again to show colours not what they expect.

If you want to do magic without putting as much, or more, effort into entertaining, don't show me, let me watch paint dry.

MAGICIANS ARE ENTERTAINERS.
We have seen enough levitations, but David Copperfield will make anyone go WOW. Figure out why, then you can be a magician, not a trickster.

Let's look at it a bit differently. Is a good musician an entertainer forst or a musician first. Granted there are those who are in it to entertain only - but most really good muscians are in it for the music first. Entertaining people is a b-product of playing really good music.

I think that some people overplay entertainment and in so doing downplay some of the power in what they're doing- like Eugene Burger says in Magic and Meaning "Why are magicians scared of magic?".

I personally focus on magic first and for me it's important that people see me as being more than just an entertainer. While what I do is entertaining and I try and structure what I do in such a way that the spectators are thoroughly entertained, I want them remember the experience as being mysterious - even spiritual. I aim to create real magic - and in some way give them a glimpse of a whole new world of possibility.
(but - that's just me )

Exactly! To us magicians and mentalists, who are so used to this sort of thing, we need a good presentation to keep us entertained - usually, anyway. But to our audiences, who very rarely see this sort of thing, the magic is very powerful indeed. It's one of the reasons a lot of magic transcends language barriers yet still gets great reactions a lot of the time.

The presentation engages the spectator and draws them in, yet the focus I feel should almost always be on the magic and giving them a magical experience.

People primarily go to see a magician to see magic - if they want jokes then they can see a comedian, so I agree with that - you should never really loose the power of the magic by exaggerating your performance of it. Good magic, with a good and entertaining presentation is ideal, but not always necessary if you ask me.

I am a magician, which means I entertain with magic. Why do people always bring up musicians?
Do footballers play because they want to entertain? Or bricklayers?

If this was a music forum and someone asked if they should reflect emotions into songs, the answer would probably be yes. It wouldn't be " magicians don't so why should we.

Songs don't need to be entertaining, as long as they reflect our mood. You can listen to music on your own, it is more of a personal thing.

I wonder how high a percentage of musicians, or the other Arts, are in it for money and fame?

I would say only a tiny percent of magicians are. They are in it to amaze and entertain. The more an audience is enjoying it, the better the magician should feel. If you only enjoy tricking people, thats fine, but in my book, that isn't what magic is all about.

I brought up music because I am a musician and for me there are a number of similarities. As for brick laying - I've done a fair share of that as well - and if you watched me it would probably be quite entertaining. I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say, though - could you ellaborate?

Cardza, you posted while I was posting, so didn't see it earlier.

You made a good point about mentalists, but, do you just reveal things, or embelish them, to make an act. If so, you do it to entertain.

I wonder if we all add more entertainment in, without actually realising it?

By the way, not having a go at anyone personally in these posts, but am enjoying the discussion very much.

Maybe now would be a good time to define what we mean by entertainment and entertaining people?

taneous wrote:Maybe now would be a good time to define what we mean by entertainment and entertaining people?

Wikipedia states entertainment as:

Entertainment is an event, performance, or activity designed to give pleasure to an audience (although, for example, in the case of a computer game the "audience" may be only one person). The audience may participate in the entertainment passively as in watching opera or actively as in computer games.

The industry that provides entertainment is called the entertainment industry.

Recreation, play, reading, and art appreciation are not generally regarded as entertainment but rather as recreation because entertainment generally requires the supplier of the performance to be visible to the viewer, with the exception of computer games.

The definition is quite good, and I do believe it is possible (not easy!) to entertain people with magic, not just by being a comedian or raconteur who does a few tricks, we are now though getting into the realms of what I would strive to be rather than what I am able to achieve at present!

Very important is the act of sharing your magic, ie you share a moment of wonder, meaningful experience with your audience. You do not demonstrate how clever or powerful you are for self gratification.

As I admited I'm striving for this, needs a lot of thought about effect selection, how the audience percieves the effect, how they can be involved, emotionaly if not physicaly, high and low points etc. Loads of work but the closer you get the more fulfilling it becomes.

Sorry I'd chose to be in (or Watch) the cast of the RSC over Eastenders any day

Magic is fun, and we all take our pleasure in different ways, I don't believe there are any hard and fast rules on this, if there are I am certainly not experienced enough to set or dictate them.

Cheers,
John

John, VERY good post. I also am not experienced enough, nor would I wish to dictate what the rules are. They are flexible.

You have hit it in one, when you talk about self gratification ( I hope you mean in magic ). If a magician just strives to show his power, he isn't doing it to entertain. This is what, in my opinion, is wrong. There are times, such as a mentalism performance, that I believe it is right to seem to have power.

A few comments have been made about being a magician, not a comedian.
You can be entertaining, without being funny.
If people can think back to some things they have seen performed by more than one person, does the one that entertained most stick in your mind better?

Hi Darrel thank you,

I did mean magic............... the previous Derren Brown quotes are pertinant though I think

Effects by various people, I love card magic, will even watch 'oil and water' repeatedly...... (sad man!) give me Rene Lavand, 'It can't be done slower' EVERY time though! On a more common theme, Paul Daniels linking rings with a young girl from the audience, little confidence pill, really powerful emotional hook.

Cheers,
John

This is what magic is about to me...people find the whole build-up to the finale entertainment in itself. I personally hate it when people talk about how clever I am, it's the wrong sort of tone. But just to clarify my position - much like taneous put it - by all means, magic with a good presentation - i.e. good entertainment - is excellent, and something we all should be striving for - but provided the powerful impact of the magic is there then all is good.

Obviously though if it was me booking a magician or a mentalist I would rather have the one who had the better personality and who I found more enjoyable.

Fascinating topic by the way .

well, being a juggler as much as a magician i guess there's no way i can claim to be a magician first! but yeah, it's all about the people! entertain them

When performing close up - i would say magician. Because they are watching for every move and are more concerned about the trick than me.
I'm not saying i shouldnt entertain whilst concentrating on the trick.

HOWEVER,

Put me on a stage and i'd rather be the entertainer first. People have come to be entertained. Whether that be magic, circus, ventriloquism (for me) or anything. I am there to entertain.


I do more stage stuff than close up so i'd say the entertainer.

HOWEVER

I think the entertainment factor should be as strong as your magic.
Same as comedy magic - Your comedy should be as strong as your magic. If one lacks then the whole performance looses its specialality. (cant spell that)

I think,it can also depend on the scenario.If im doing a trick for people,i want to make sure that they are enjoying it BUT if im at home working on a new presenation or magic idea,then the magic always comes first, its the effect thats all important to me. Its not until the idea is finished that i then think ok, how do i make this entertaining?